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Re:RateOurCops – Like Yelp, but for Cops by dvt on Friday July 02, 2021 @04:54PM (#27716737)
> Sure, it's egregiously unconstitutional; but just as you say, I wouldn't want to be the one hiring the attorneys.

How is it unconstitutional exactly? People seem to throw that term around willy-nilly. It is, however, problematic because it overreaches -- for example, being expected to blur out badge numbers or officer names is needlessly onerous for the reporter of a police encounter.

Re:RateOurCops – Like Yelp, but for Cops by leesalminen on Friday July 02, 2021 @04:59PM (#27716782)
IANAL, however my understanding is that the First Amendment protects ones’ ability to record police officers in public when acting in an official capacity.

I suppose the Supreme Court will have to rule on the issue of blurring our badge numbers during the course of a protected activity.

But this does seem related to the constitution through the First Amendment.

Re:RateOurCops – Like Yelp, but for Cops by munk-a on Friday July 02, 2021 @05:43PM (#27717298)
I think it'd really depend on whether this communication was framed as being from a private organization against the public organization or against the private individual of the officer's own person. And even then it'd likely get mired in a lot of concerns about public safety.

One of the more sane elevated rights police officers have long enjoyed is the right to extreme privacy - their phone numbers and addresses are unlisted by default and sharing the private information of an officer with malicious intent carries a more serious penalty than an equivalent action against a regular individual. Police officers face an elevated level of danger in their personal lives from persons they've arrested or interacted with - if you could spin this website as providing information that makes it easier to identify and harass problematic officers (even if they deserve a significant amount of scrutiny) you'll likely have a strong case to have the site shutdown.

Re:RateOurCops – Like Yelp, but for Cops by rmah on Friday July 02, 2021 @08:48PM (#27718445)
One of the more sane elevated rights police officers have long enjoyed is the right to extreme privacy - their phone numbers and addresses are unlisted by default and sharing the private information of an officer with malicious intent carries a more serious penalty than an equivalent action against a regular individual.

Most people these days seem to be confused about what the term "secret police" means. It doesn't mean a police forces that the public don't know exists. It means a police force that has as some of its members, people whos identities are secret. You know, like the NKVD or STASI.

I was taught as a kid 30 years ago, during the cold war, that having a secret police was a key indicator of an oppressive regime. What you describe as "sane elevated rights" was something I was taught that we needed to fight tooth and nail, possibly with nuclear weapons.

I guess times change. Sometimes I feel like crying.

Re:RateOurCops – Like Yelp, but for Cops by WoahNoun on Friday July 02, 2021 @05:54PM (#27717407)
Sounds pretty cowardly and against the principle of community policing.
Re:RateOurCops – Like Yelp, but for Cops by tshaddox on Friday July 02, 2021 @05:02PM (#27716817)
Seems about as blatant of a violation of freedom of speech as one can imagine. They’re public officials. Their personal information (name, role, jurisdiction, salary, etc.) ought to be actively published by the government. To make it illegal to publish that information is just ludicrous. Heck, I used to remember when police had to literally wear a badge that publicized their name.
Re:RateOurCops – Like Yelp, but for Cops by dvt on Friday July 02, 2021 @05:12PM (#27716937)
> They’re public officials

They're not elected, nor are they "public persons." There are plenty of regular folks working for the city, including analysts, beat cops, secretaries, and so on.

This is extremely reductive.

Re:RateOurCops – Like Yelp, but for Cops by dragonwriter on Friday July 02, 2021 @05:44PM (#27717317)
> They're not elected, nor are they "public persons." There are plenty of regular folks working for the city, including analysts, beat cops, secretaries, and so on.

As a non-elected “regular folk” kind of person working for a state government (not city, but Constitutionally there is no distinction) a lot of my employment information that would not be public (and that both I and my employer might seek to protect, or different reasons, from the public were I privately employed) is public. Not just in a theoretic sense, but actually hosted and searchable by anyone in the world in numerous databases compiled by media organizations of public data.

Working for the government, outside of where the fact or nature of that employment is itself, say, classified information, is very much a “public” thing.

Re:RateOurCops – Like Yelp, but for Cops by munk-a on Friday July 02, 2021 @05:56PM (#27717425)
Unless I am really misunderstanding the rulings on this subject, though, I believe that if you're residing in CA (or another two party consent state) you do have the ability to refuse being recorded even when executing your public duty.

Police officers get a number of special treatments that empower them with more and less rights in certain settings due to the specific nature of their job.

Re:RateOurCops – Like Yelp, but for Cops by throwaway_egbs on Friday July 02, 2021 @06:29PM (#27717713)
You can record on-duty police officers in California without their permission.

https://www.jmllaw.com/blog/keep-mind-9-rules-of-filming-pol...

https://www.solutionlawapc.com/criminal-defense/the-right-to...

https://www.vjamesdesimonelaw.com/can-you-film-police-when-s...

There was even a bill passed in 2015 (still in effect) that affirmatively declared a right to record: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml...

Re:RateOurCops – Like Yelp, but for Cops by munk-a on Friday July 02, 2021 @06:36PM (#27717742)
That's correct - but I don't believe other public officials similarly lack the right to privacy even while operating in their official capacity.
Re:RateOurCops – Like Yelp, but for Cops by filoeleven on Saturday July 03, 2021 @11:01AM (#27722029)
If they are in a public building with public access, so not in a restricted area, then recordings can be made. CA does have additional protections even in public concerning “confidential communications” which likely prohibit covert recording.

https://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/california-recording-law

Re:RateOurCops – Like Yelp, but for Cops by lostgame on Monday July 05, 2021 @08:25PM (#27743112)
“...police have not proven themselves to be statistically worth the ‘right to privacy’.”

Your comment is extremely poorly worded with the recent and historical explosion of derision against black people, etc.

Very poor choice of words. :(

Re:RateOurCops – Like Yelp, but for Cops by throwaway_egbs on Friday July 02, 2021 @09:25PM (#27718597)
Ah, I see what you were saying now. It was a little confusing for me in the context of a discussion about police.
Re:RateOurCops – Like Yelp, but for Cops by heavyset_go on Friday July 02, 2021 @05:37PM (#27717244)
I can look up my municipality's public school teachers by name, find out their exact salaries for each year they were employed, and then use those names on any site like Rate My Professors to find their reviews.
Re:RateOurCops – Like Yelp, but for Cops by tshaddox on Friday July 02, 2021 @07:30PM (#27718103)
The fact that the people who can pull you over, arrest you, kill you, etc. aren’t even elected is a totally separate issue, but perhaps one that ought to be addressed! They’re still absolutely public officials.
Re:RateOurCops – Like Yelp, but for Cops by chrisseaton on Friday July 02, 2021 @05:16PM (#27716992)
> They're not elected

Who said they were?

> nor are they public

They work in the public sector. That's what 'public' means.

Re:RateOurCops – Like Yelp, but for Cops by torstenvl on Friday July 02, 2021 @05:39PM (#27717259)
> They work in the public sector. That's what 'public' means.

No, in the context of the First Amendment, that is emphatically not what it means. Where did you go to law school?

Re:RateOurCops – Like Yelp, but for Cops by subroutine on Friday July 02, 2021 @05:33PM (#27717196)
I think op is saying there's a difference between, for example, the Chief of Police (a public person), and an undercover police detective. I think it's unreasonable to require all government employees, from DMV janitors to CalTrans technicians, to police detectives, to have a public profile. Is there any current law that stipulates otherwise (applies to all gov employees)?
Re:RateOurCops – Like Yelp, but for Cops by chrisseaton on Friday July 02, 2021 @06:22PM (#27717658)
If they're taking public money of course they should be accountable to the public.
Re:RateOurCops – Like Yelp, but for Cops by subroutine on Saturday July 03, 2021 @02:51AM (#27719863)
> If they're taking public money of course they should be accountable to the public.

Really? A public profile for all... military personnel. FBI, CIA, NSA employees, government contractors, employees of corporation that accepts government subsidies/grants.

Re:RateOurCops – Like Yelp, but for Cops by chrisseaton on Saturday July 03, 2021 @07:51AM (#27720990)
> A public profile for all

Yes, unless there's some kind of security exemption then names can be anonymised. I don't think most police are doing that kind of work though?

Why do you think that's controversial? It's public money.

> government contractors, employees of corporation

The contract details should be in scope, but what the person with that contract chooses to do with that money (paying employees) is up to them and should be private.

Re:RateOurCops – Like Yelp, but for Cops by subroutine on Saturday July 03, 2021 @08:20AM (#27721127)
I understand and respect your position, and think there are some merits to it, but I personally believe it's unnecessary. Typically the 'public persons' within public orgs are their senior / high-ranking officials (e.g. chief of police; director of engineering), and often are directly elected (e.g. county sheriff). If there are grievances to be had within some public sector, we as citizens can and should demand responses from the leaders of those organizations. I don't think making it easy to harass low ranking public employees is a good tradeoff for whatever is gained by requiring them to have a public profile. I think most public servants (mid/low-level employees) should be entitled to the same level of privacy as everyone else.
Re:RateOurCops – Like Yelp, but for Cops by ashtonkem on Friday July 02, 2021 @04:57PM (#27716761)
It seems unconstitutional to me; you have no expectation of privacy when you’re out in public, and badge numbers are legally required to be worn.

This combination in effect turns into a requirement to either not film, or not post videos of cops, which is unconstitutional.

Re:RateOurCops – Like Yelp, but for Cops by dvt on Friday July 02, 2021 @05:14PM (#27716962)
> not post videos of cops, which is unconstitutional

Just to be clear, you're not allowed to post videos of plenty of things (Area-51, a meeting between the Joint Chiefs, closed sessions in Congress, etc.). But you're right that you're allowed to record videos of cops in public[1]. I think the law in question is about personally-identifiable information.

[1] https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-1st-circuit/1578557.html

Re:RateOurCops – Like Yelp, but for Cops by perihelions on Friday July 02, 2021 @05:24PM (#27717072)
It's perfectly legal to post videos of any of those things.
Re:RateOurCops – Like Yelp, but for Cops by munk-a on Friday July 02, 2021 @05:53PM (#27717402)
It is illegal to post a whole lot of videos you might find pretty innocuous. A not insignificant portion of America has two party consent laws[1] that really restrict what you're able to record when it comes to private individuals. It has been pretty clearly decided highlighted that police do not enjoy this commonly held right[2] due to the sensitivity of their role but I really don't know if that same restriction extends to other public offices when acting in a non-public manner (i.e. the JCS) - I am really not familiar with the specific exceptions the above comment laid out so I won't comment on them... but it is illegal to post a whole bunch of different sorts of videos.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_call_recording_laws#...

2. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/06/you-have-first-amendme...

Re:RateOurCops – Like Yelp, but for Cops by ashtonkem on Friday July 02, 2021 @06:43PM (#27717802)
It’s illegal to record without consent in some states. Posting such a recording is problematic because it’s evidence of a crime, not a crime in and of itself. If it were, there would be cases of journalists posting transcripts from illegally recorded conversations, which isn’t happening.
Re:RateOurCops – Like Yelp, but for Cops by 8ytecoder on Friday July 02, 2021 @05:25PM (#27717084)
IANAL either, but I'd expect anything that puts onerous restrictions on speech to be unconstitutional. Usually these "over-enthusiastic" laws don't define the restrictions in a narrow scope. It all boils down to the definition of PII in this law, for example. If it's narrowly and clearly defined it could pass the first amendment test. If it's not clear and instead has the effect of chilling speech because of that, it'll get thrown out.

I mean the Supreme Court just threw out the donor disclosure requirement in CA because it could have the effect of stifling free speech.