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Re:Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, sh... by softwaredoug on Friday July 02, 2021 @11:17AM (#27712620)
> "The companies were losing money and employees trying to satisfy Amazon and their constant abusive changes,” Tom Rask, an attorney for Last Mile and Triton, told Motherboard. "You have to hire numerous drivers who may or may not be working. One day Amazon dictates that you have thirty routes, the next day forty, then the day after twenty. You’re supposed to have enough drivers for back-up while Amazon is lowering pay. Amazon’s actions are unlawful."

Sounds miserable. Id shut down too if I was losing money with only 1 client.

If this were freelancing it’d be like having to be always available for one client 40 hrs a week, but not knowing if you’ll get to bill 5 hrs or 50… while your rates constantly decrease. There’s no point in having this business

Re:Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, sh... by paulpauper on Friday July 02, 2021 @11:59AM (#27713182)
Freelancing just sounds awful for this reason. Yeah some ppl can make a lot but still seems like an awful way to make money if you are an american. Consulting is somewhat different
Re:Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, sh... by antihero on Friday July 02, 2021 @12:39PM (#27713776)
Freelancing is great if you've built up a network of professional contacts who appreciate your work and will both contract you and recommend you to their network when someone is looking for work done. You typically get paid a far higher hourly rate than if you are working full-time - my contract day rate amounts to nearly double my full-time day rate.

And presuming you keep delivering, impressing people, and gaining more skill and experience, it just goes up and up and up.

Like anything else, it is much harder if you are on the bottom rung.

Re:Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, sh... by JMTQp8lwXL on Friday July 02, 2021 @01:08PM (#27714109)
Your double hourly rate for contracting might be gross, and after taxes (covering both sides of FICA), health insurance, and other employer-provided benefits, the net delta could be smaller.
Re:Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, sh... by veerabadhra on Friday July 02, 2021 @12:16PM (#27713448)
In any business to business contract, don't be afraid to negotiate aggressive payment terms. I learned that the hard way with my first client being net-15. The higher the payment takes the settle, the more trade credit you are offering your client, increasing their PAYDEX score while messing with your cash flow. Ask for at least half up front.
Re:Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, sh... by reaperducer on Friday July 02, 2021 @01:25PM (#27714303)
Or hire a factoring company to take the risk out of it for you. Some banks provide this service. Sure, they take a percentage, but for a one man band, it's often worth the pace of mind to offload this work to a professional.
Re:Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, sh... by tenebrisalietum on Friday July 02, 2021 @12:17PM (#27713463)
It's like any other business - you don't want to put all your eggs in one basket - either with suppliers, clients/customers, or employees. Optimally a freelancer will not be stuck with one client.
Re:Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, sh... by danuker on Friday July 02, 2021 @12:00PM (#27713201)
The hourly rate is greater for a reason.
Re:Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, sh... by softwaredoug on Friday July 02, 2021 @03:39PM (#27715894)
Yes you work on sales to get the contract. Then often you must continue the sale to use the hours. Some people thrive on this. But it can be exhausting.
Re:Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, sh... by MattGaiser on Friday July 02, 2021 @12:15PM (#27713426)
A lot of freelancers are just people doing one year contracts. In that context, that isn't too bad as engineers are constantly moving anyway.
Re:Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, sh... by zh3 on Friday July 02, 2021 @02:29PM (#27715024)
That sounds pretty sweet compared to the zero-hours contracts in the UK [0] - no obligation to provide any work at all to the employee, hence 'zero-hours'.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-hour_contract

Re:Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, sh... by alisonkisk on Friday July 02, 2021 @11:28AM (#27712762)
This is basically how shift work in hospitality and service jobs works, and it's terrible.

Some people claim it's done intentionally to prevent workers from working other jobs where they might get tired or escape the first job.

Re:Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, sh... by NortySpock on Friday July 02, 2021 @12:17PM (#27713461)
Well, part of it might be intentional.

The other part might be just the organic result of shoving the complications of varying hourly load and varying worker availability week-to-week onto those willing or desperate to work extra hours.

Schedules get jumbled, work hours get fragmented like a garbage collector's memory management without a compaction step.

Re:Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, sh... by lotsofpulp on Friday July 02, 2021 @01:15PM (#27714190)
>The other part might be just the organic result of shoving the complications of varying hourly load and varying worker availability week-to-week onto those willing or desperate to work extra hours.

Much of the "middle" (or upper middle, however you want to label it) class's luxuries are based on goods and services being cheap enough due to the people at the bottom not having a choice but to deal with unsteady income and changing schedules.

I am actually enjoying stores and restaurants closing early because they do not have enough employees, or prices going up so that people cannot constantly afford to eat out. It means there are people that can finally be home with family at dinner time, or if they are working, they are earning a premium for evenings, nights, weekends, etc and perhaps they themselves will be able to enjoy those services.

Re:Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, sh... by kjs3 on Friday July 02, 2021 @01:55PM (#27714623)
If you're building your business around 1 client who isn't the government, I would humbly argue you're doing it wrong.
Re:Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, sh... by blck on Friday July 02, 2021 @01:58PM (#27714654)
It sounds like Amazon strong arms these companies into ONLY serving them.

FTA: "The incident is notable as it appears to be the first public example in the United States of Amazon delivery service partners, small businesses that deliver packages exclusively for Amazon"

This is the program for Amazon Delivery Service Partners https://logistics.amazon.com/

Seems to me it's basically Amazon Flex but for people with capitol who want to be able to get up and started with their "own business." But when you join you can't contract for anyone else.

Re:Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, sh... by WalterBright on Friday July 02, 2021 @02:11PM (#27714801)
> It sounds like Amazon strong arms these companies into ONLY serving them.

I don't really understand this. Amazon can't "strong arm" you unless you let them. If Amazon "requires" you to dump your other clients, you can also "require" that such a clause means they must offer compensating guarantees and more money.

Sheesh.

Don't start a business where the business plan is to have only one customer, or at least if you do, don't complain when they realize they have you over a barrel.

Re:Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, sh... by cartoonworld on Friday July 02, 2021 @02:44PM (#27715207)
>Don't start a business where the business plan is to have only one customer, or at least if you do, don't complain when they realize they have you over a barrel.

This is great advice, such good advice that it should be given over and over.

Unfortunately, there is someone out there who hasn't heard it yet. Amazon will just shop and shop until they find that person.

Re:Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, sh... by WalterBright on Friday July 02, 2021 @03:25PM (#27715726)
It's a rookie mistake. I signed a couple bad contracts before I learned that lesson.
Re:Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, sh... by cartoonworld on Sunday July 04, 2021 @11:26PM (#27734396)
I like to think of this as the "un-lucky 10,000"[x]

[x] - https://xkcd.com/1053/

Re:Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, sh... by mcguire on Friday July 02, 2021 @02:20PM (#27714911)
My impression is that these businesses are started specifically to work for Amazon.
Re:Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, sh... by WalterBright on Friday July 02, 2021 @02:29PM (#27715029)
I wouldn't start such a business without an ironclad contract with Amazon (or anyone else, for that matter). Not a chance.
Re:Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, sh... by kjs3 on Friday July 02, 2021 @02:03PM (#27714700)
That's exactly it. You get sold on "You get a slice of the amazing growth of Amazon", but are buying into the fact Amazon can cut you out at any time, for any reason, and you have no recourse.
Re:Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, sh... by WalterBright on Friday July 02, 2021 @02:15PM (#27714856)
> the fact Amazon can cut you out at any time, for any reason

That's why you READ THE CONTRACT before signing it, because they can't do that unless it is in the contract. It's the whole point of a contract.

Now, if you don't like the terms in the contract, negotiate. Yes, you can negotiate. Yes, you are entitled to negotiate. Yes, you are a sucker if you accept the other party's opening default contract.

Re:Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, sh... by mcguire on Friday July 02, 2021 @02:22PM (#27714947)
Or perhaps "don't get into a contractual relationship with someone much more powerful than you.

But that's exactly the point of the system Amazon set up. They don't want to deal with UPS/USPS/etc.

Re:Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, sh... by WalterBright on Friday July 02, 2021 @02:29PM (#27715017)
I once had a contract with a very large and powerful corporation. They violated the terms. They laughed at me. I sued them and won.

Contracts work, they're a great leveler.

P.S. The breach was so bad, my lawyer took the case on contingency.

Re:Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, sh... by mcguire on Friday July 02, 2021 @07:53PM (#27718221)
I'm curious: did they violate their contract terms, or did they violate terms that you negotiated onto them.
Re:Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, sh... by WalterBright on Saturday July 03, 2021 @12:59AM (#27719466)
The latter.
Re:Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, sh... by kjs3 on Tuesday July 06, 2021 @05:38PM (#27754663)
Having negotiated thousands of contracts in my career, and litigated several dozen times when things didn't work out, I hope cruel experience never dulls your enthusiasm for how contracts should work, as opposed to how it all does work in practice.
Re:Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, sh... by cartoonworld on Friday July 02, 2021 @02:40PM (#27715162)
It's even worse than that, Amazon will razzle-dazzle you with that "amazing growth" potential, but they likely don't highlight the fact that you are entering into a monopsony franchise. Except it isn't at all like FedEx, where the franchise is the route--for Amazon, they get to decide arbitrarily what, where, when, and how you deliver to whom, all while dictating your employee's pay and everything about your equipment.

How is anybody supposed to craft a business plan when Amazon can't guarantee what sort of business you're gonna do, and also change it for whatever reason they like?

I am altering the deal... pray I do not alter it further [MANIACAL LAUGHTER emanates from THE FLYING FOX]

Re:Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, sh... by m463 on Friday July 02, 2021 @02:19PM (#27714900)
I've heard of this happening with small companies. They have a product, are slowly growing their business then someone big like costco wants to order a LOT of the product for sale everywhere.

It's risky to ramp up the business when the one customer may (and will probably) stop ordering abruptly.

also, why don't consumers spread their amazon purchases evenly throughout the week? :)

Re:Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, sh... by WalterBright on Friday July 02, 2021 @02:17PM (#27714883)
> their constant abusive changes

What does their contract with Amazon say? Who would sign a contract that permits "constant abusive changes"?

Re:Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, sh... by Arnt on Friday July 02, 2021 @03:58PM (#27716084)
Don't know what it says, but I know people who've signed contracts expecting the usual behaviour. I know a contract that promised action based on change requests within x business days, oops, the new customer sent 2000 change requests in a few months, more than the total of all older customers had sent in in years. Surprise!

You may have heard the story about the Colo/ISP that signed up a large new customer (you know the name) with 95th percentile pricing for IP traffic and unlimited power to the cage? The ISP signed a contract that said 95th percentile pricing and expected the usual usage curve, the customer made sure the curve was a very different one. And used (much)_more power in the cage than the ISP had ever seen, too.

Re:Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, sh... by WalterBright on Friday July 02, 2021 @04:04PM (#27716184)
> expecting the usual behaviour

Common advice is "put the expectations in the contract". For a significant sized ISP, this shouldn't have been the first dance they were invited to.

For example, when I bought an Adjustable Rate Mortgage, I made sure the contract stipulated when the rates would be adjusted, and what formula would be used to adjust them. Not "whenever the bank wanted to change them, and to whatever rate they wanted to."

Re:Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, sh... by Arnt on Friday July 02, 2021 @04:21PM (#27716405)
Common advice is, yes... but I know specific examples of a very large ISP that missed something like that, and a middling-sized company, and my ex charlady. Errare humanum est, I suppose.