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Re:Canada weather: Dozens dead as heatwave shatters records by 0xTJ on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @08:51AM (#27687846)
And all the while, a certain political party can't agree amongst themselves that climate change is actually happening.
Re:Canada weather: Dozens dead as heatwave shatters records by aikinai on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @08:56AM (#27687906)
A freak heat wave doesn’t prove global warming any more than a freak blizzard disproves it. I hate that people do this every time. You might be right, but trying to claim this type of “proof by one data point” is just asking for a “certain political party” to do the same with a different single data point.
Re:Canada weather: Dozens dead as heatwave shatters records by candu on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @09:09AM (#27688027)
...except, really, when people use this argument, they're often not using that one data point in isolation. This is just one data point, true, but it's one _more_ data point on top of an increasingly long list of "freak" weather events.

500-year floods, 100-year storms, 100-year heat waves, etc. are becoming almost annual / decennial events. We absolutely should be willing to change our prior probability that global warming is A Real Thing from "very high" to "very, very high" for one more data point; that's how Bayesian inference works.

Re:Canada weather: Dozens dead as heatwave shatters records by itsoktocry on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @11:44AM (#27689892)
>500-year floods, 100-year storms, 100-year heat waves, etc. are becoming almost annual / decennial events.

Are you sure?

In the IPCC report, the authors have high confidence in more hot days and nights, but they are less sure about other forms of extreme weather increasing due to climate change. In fact, they mention that, globally, hurricane activity might decrease. Snowfall, forest fires seem to hanging steady.

Re:Canada weather: Dozens dead as heatwave shatters records by sneak on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @09:33AM (#27688305)
500-year floods happening twice in a lifespan, or the same with 100-year storms or heat waves doesn't actually prove or disprove anthropocentric climate change either.

It's entirely plausible that it's related, but the fact that these things are happening more often in a 5 or 10 year period is not sufficient evidence alone.

Your comment reads like a hammer looking for a nail, like freak weather is obviously a natural consequence of rising global temperatures. I'm not sure that it is.

You should probably examine your assumptions a little bit more closely, and look for a testable link rather than a confirmation of an existing belief.

Re:Canada weather: Dozens dead as heatwave shatters records by wins32767 on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @09:45AM (#27688433)
Unfortunately we don't have a control Earth to use.
Re:Canada weather: Dozens dead as heatwave shatters records by gpm on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @11:01AM (#27689373)
They don't prove anything, but they are evidence in the baysiaan sense of the word. You should be (substantially) more surprised to see freak weather events if climate change isn't real than if climate change is.
Re:Canada weather: Dozens dead as heatwave shatters records by Workaccount2 on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @10:17AM (#27688833)
Given your take, what kind of evidence would you envision seeing that would give you certainty that anthro cc is going on? Would the evidence arrive before it was too late to do anything?
Re:Canada weather: Dozens dead as heatwave shatters records by sneak on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @01:43PM (#27691396)
Perhaps I wasn't clear: I believe that anthropocentric climate change is real.

I just don't have anything to suggest that all this recent freak weather is related to it. It's entirely possible that it is! It's also entirely possible that it isn't.

Freak weather is not, itself, some irrefutable proof of anthropocentric climate change. (We have plenty of that already.)

It could be that all the warming and sea ice loss that humans have caused (which no doubt has a bunch of cataclysmic stuff waiting in the wings for us, likely related to oceans and centered on plankton and other such planet-scale bio processes) is unrelated to the fact that we've had a bunch of bad weather lately, and that we've just been somewhat unlucky.

Re:Canada weather: Dozens dead as heatwave shatters records by baq on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @10:52AM (#27689259)
calculating expected extreme events isn't really that much different in principle than testing if a die is fair. if it's slightly loaded, you'll likely not notice for quite some time and might never be sure.

now the problem with climate change is that emissions now will yield indisputable evidence 20-30-50 years from now - a blink of an eye in climatology and likely point of no return for humanity.

note we do not lack evidence of global warming. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jul/22/memorial...

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Re:Canada weather: Dozens dead as heatwave shatters records by sneak on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @01:47PM (#27691451)
I encourage you to read my comment again, the second time more carefully.
Re:Canada weather: Dozens dead as heatwave shatters records by jussij on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @09:06AM (#27688004)
Except when these "freak heat waves" start becoming common place.

In recent years many places around the would appear to be setting new temperature records on a rather regular basis.

Re:Canada weather: Dozens dead as heatwave shatters records by TheFreim on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @10:15AM (#27688801)
Are they more common? Summers and winters don't feel any different to me than what they were when I was a child, they just get talked about a LOT more (my specific geographic location is probably a factor).
Re:Canada weather: Dozens dead as heatwave shatters records by blackbrokkoli on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @10:48AM (#27689209)
Take any region, country or city, look up heat highs or averages.

You will inadvertently find that around half a dozen extreme events happened in the last two decades.

Since a giant political movement seems to be based on the unwillingness to read more than ~24 characters at a time, here is a beautiful chart that really shows this: [0]. It does not even have text!

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warming_stripes#/media/File:20...

Re:Canada weather: Dozens dead as heatwave shatters records by jussij on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @07:18PM (#27694664)
This page lists the highest temperatures from around the world:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_weather_records

The nice thing about that page is when you scroll down to the continent/country table data there is an option to sort by date column.

Sorting by date shows most of these records were set in the 21 century.

More worryingly many of those records were set in the last half decade.

While this might be coincidence, it could also be a trend and if it is the later then things are starting to look rather ominous. Time will tell.

Re:Canada weather: Dozens dead as heatwave shatters records by swader999 on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @11:50AM (#27689975)
This is false. USGCRP Climate Science Special Assessment: Volume 1: Chapter 6: Temperature Changes in the United States https://science2017.globalchange.gov/chapter/6/ Scroll down to figure 6.3. You can see that the 1920's to 1940's had more extreme heat events than any time since. Figure 6.4 is also useful to look at.
Re:Canada weather: Dozens dead as heatwave shatters records by gpm on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @11:04AM (#27689426)
> my specific geographic location is probably a factor

A substantial one too, here's a very very rough map (which only measures one aspect, and has terrible resolution)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_effects_of_climate_ch...

Re:Canada weather: Dozens dead as heatwave shatters records by BeniBoy on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @09:19AM (#27688142)
That's why we use the term "Climate Change". A freak heat wave and a freak blizzard both show that climate is changing, and not for the best.

Two sides of the same coin, we're fucking up our climate.

Re:Canada weather: Dozens dead as heatwave shatters records by thehappypm on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @10:46AM (#27689171)
I think part of what makes people skeptical is that even if there was no anthropogenic CO2 in the atmosphere, there would still be these so-called "freak events". There were big hurricanes in the US's Revolutionary War era, for example, that had huge impacts on naval forces in the Caribbean. If climate change truly was a total hoax, believers could still point at a myriad of extreme weather events and say "look, climate change is real".
Re:Canada weather: Dozens dead as heatwave shatters records by itsoktocry on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @11:46AM (#27689928)
>A freak heat wave and a freak blizzard both show that climate is changing, and not for the best.

Freak events don't show anything, that's why they are freak events.

Re:Canada weather: Dozens dead as heatwave shatters records by 0xTJ on Thursday July 08, 2021 @07:26AM (#27770574)
Yes, they do show things. When freak events happen over and over, year after year, that's a bad sign, and shows that things are changing.
Re:Canada weather: Dozens dead as heatwave shatters records by kergonath on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @09:52AM (#27688507)
One six on a dice is chance. Two sixes in a row are a fluke. Nine sixes are a loaded dice.

The trends are clear for anyone interested in discussing facts rather than ideology.

Re:Canada weather: Dozens dead as heatwave shatters records by codingdave on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @11:19AM (#27689603)
This is exactly the type of thinking that allows people to deny the reality of climate change. Dismissing "one data point", but doing it to all the thousands of data points. At some point, you have to look at all the data points and acknowledge that there is a distinct trend.
Re:Canada weather: Dozens dead as heatwave shatters records by wiz21c on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @09:01AM (#27687945)
Here (20000km from Canada) on the radio climate specialist says "we don't know for sure if it's climate change at work, models don't agree".

My gut feeling is that if it is exceptionally high then model will hardly predict it.

Anyone here knows ?

Re:Canada weather: Dozens dead as heatwave shatters records by asdfasgasdgasdg on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @09:05AM (#27687993)
The proximal cause of this heatwave is an omega block in the jet stream. Atmospheric models predict that these types of events should be less common as the world warms. At least that is what I was able to read about it a couple of days ago when I was worrying about this same question.
Re:Canada weather: Dozens dead as heatwave shatters records by Cthulhu_ on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @09:18AM (#27688123)
The problem is that for now, it's still a statistical anomaly, like the snow in Brazil is; it's uncommon, but if it's only a few days, it's going to be a blip on the radar and only a few tenths of a degree in annual statistics.

The temperature at the moment is weather; annual and multi-year statistics is climate.

Another commenter posted https://twitter.com/RARohde/status/1410157638109872134?s=19, which shows this is a statistical anomaly; only when this kind of weather happens year on year, and when the averages go up, can you speak of climate change.

(disclaimer: just being devil's advocate, climate change is real and "freak weather events" are becoming so common now that you can't deny it being a trend and the direct effect of global climate change)

Re:Canada weather: Dozens dead as heatwave shatters records by clcaev on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @09:14AM (#27688077)
https://news.trust.org/item/20210630113113-dvenb

U.S. climate ads by conservatives, for conservatives, shift views

Re:Canada weather: Dozens dead as heatwave shatters records by 8458e112e7b2 on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @09:18AM (#27688124)
And members of all political parties, even the ones who supposedly are in "agreement" on climate change take private jets to fly all over the world.
Re:Canada weather: Dozens dead as heatwave shatters records by josephcsible on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @09:56AM (#27688576)
They take private jets to fly all over the world while shaming the rest of us for flying commercial.
Re:Canada weather: Dozens dead as heatwave shatters records by shadilay on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @08:56AM (#27687909)
What percent of political parties worldwide agree on climate change? Also consider countries that are autocratic.
Re:Canada weather: Dozens dead as heatwave shatters records by tsimionescu on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @12:30PM (#27690505)
The vast majority, including most of the autocratic ones - most notably, the Chinese ruling party does believe in climate change, and did sign the Paris agreement.
Re:Canada weather: Dozens dead as heatwave shatters records by shadilay on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @01:33PM (#27691274)
There is an anecdote that describes the Chine governments attitude towards climate change.

In anticipation of some international event, like the Olypmics, the city government put in new streetlights with integrated solar panels but the solar panels were never hooked up. It is important that they look like they are doing something without regard to it having any actual effect. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_(sociological_concept)

Re:Canada weather: Dozens dead as heatwave shatters records by jacob2484 on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @09:21AM (#27688174)
I disagree - most Republicans I know agree climate change is occurring. The issue is the other party vilifying/putting at risk thousands of jobs currently in the legacy fossil fuel industries, not to mention essentially raising prices on everything for the regular person. It'd work to everyone's favor if a sound transition plan is agreed on, which gives the folks in the legacy industries preference to clean energy jobs/businesses.
Re:Canada weather: Dozens dead as heatwave shatters records by kergonath on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @09:49AM (#27688480)
> The issue is the other party vilifying/putting at risk thousands of jobs currently in the legacy fossil fuel industries

That’s propaganda. The industry is vilified, for good reasons as well as bad ones. The people working in this industry are just pawns in a politics game. There aren’t that many of them in the first place, and there are just as many jobs to be had in non-fossil fuel energy production.

> not to mention essentially raising prices on everything for the regular person.

What do you think will happen to the prices of everything once climate change seriously perturbs agriculture, and once you need either heating or cooling all year round just to live in most of the world? Where will the money come from when we’ll need to build flood walls and levees, and all the infrastructure near the coasts will need to be overhauled. Or when water runs out in the American West? Climate change is coming to cost orders of magnitude more than preventing it.

> It'd work to everyone's favor if a sound transition plan is agreed on, …

Assuming you’re American, that’s not going to happen, because

> … which gives the folks in the legacy industries preference to clean energy jobs/businesses.

This was part of the platform of one party and the other still was not interested. Instead they whined about guns and abortion. Well, enjoy the future.

Re:Canada weather: Dozens dead as heatwave shatters records by loloquwowndueo on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @09:45AM (#27688434)
Did it ever occur to you, in your US-centricity, that parent was talking about a canadian party, since this all started because of a weather event in Canada? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/20/canada-conserv...
Re:Canada weather: Dozens dead as heatwave shatters records by mempko on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @09:43AM (#27688409)
That's what the green new deal is. A sound transition plan.