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Re:Show HN: I made a new kind of Bible app by lalaland1125 on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @02:47PM (#27595532)
My main question for this app is how they are going to deal with the many conflicting interpretations of the Bible. Who decides which interpretation is shown by default or the order?

For example, the pro-LGBT and anti-LGBT churches have drastically different views of many verses.

Re:Show HN: I made a new kind of Bible app by andrewmcwatters on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @04:56PM (#27597097)
“I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment.”

-1 Corinthians 1:10 (ESV)

“I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them.”

-Romans 16:17 (ESV)

“I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed. For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.”

-Galatians 1:6-10 (ESV)

Re:Show HN: I made a new kind of Bible app by brightball on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @05:08PM (#27597242)
Context matters so much.

Paul was writing each letter to different churches based on things he knew were happening at that particular church.

A verse without context is popular but has very little meaning.

You need look no further than Philippians 4:13, in which Paul is talking about being able to be content in prison. Context matters.

Re:Show HN: I made a new kind of Bible app by andrewmcwatters on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @05:12PM (#27597273)
The letters to the churches are relevant today. They aren’t cannon to point out the church at Corinth has this particular issue and it doesn’t apply to anyone else.

You’re pointing out that scriptural context is important, and you’re right. These verses, in full context, are about divisions in the church.

Re:Show HN: I made a new kind of Bible app by brightball on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @05:15PM (#27597313)
That’s true, but the context of what was going on still matters. You’re better off referencing the entire book and what it’s saying and why, than covering a single verse out of context as instruction.
Re:Show HN: I made a new kind of Bible app by andrewmcwatters on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @05:18PM (#27597357)
Yes, that’s true. But, it’s not out of context. It’s explicitly about being “divided.”

> Divisions in the Church

10 I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment. 11 For it has been reported to me by Chloe's people that there is quarreling among you, my brothers. 12 What I mean is that each one of you says, “I follow Paul,” or “I follow Apollos,” or “I follow Cephas,” or “I follow Christ.” 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 so that no one may say that you were baptized in my name. 16 (I did baptize also the household of Stephanas. Beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized anyone else.) 17 For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with words of eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

Do you follow the LGBT church? Or the anti-LGBT church? Or do you follow X? Or do you follow Y?

Re:Show HN: I made a new kind of Bible app by lalaland1125 on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @06:26PM (#27598036)
> I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment.

But how would you actually implement that in this app? People fundamentally disagree about the meanings of many verses.

Re:Show HN: I made a new kind of Bible app by treeman79 on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @06:42PM (#27598235)
List different translations and links to evidence for each. Order by some metric of “this has best evidence, or this is most common understanding
Re:Show HN: I made a new kind of Bible app by lalaland1125 on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @05:06PM (#27597219)
Could you explain what you mean by those Bible verses? It's a bit hard to understand what you are trying to say/argue?
Re:Show HN: I made a new kind of Bible app by mint2 on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @03:28PM (#27608922)
Yeah is that poster saying the division between the different Christian stances is against the Bibles message and one side or both is not in accordance with the words of the Bible.

Or are they trying to suggesting the act of pointing out the very clear different and incompatible beliefs between two different Christian groups is actually the division the Bible is against.

Hard to tell which, but those two readings are basically the opposite of each other.

Re:Show HN: I made a new kind of Bible app by treeman79 on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @06:48PM (#27598296)
Do not bear false witness vs don’t lie is a classic one. One is an item in the set of all lies, the other is the entire set of lies.
Re:Show HN: I made a new kind of Bible app by akudha on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @06:54PM (#27598349)
Your example is an interesting one. I wonder if majority of people make up a belief first and then follow a church that reaffirms their (already made up) belief or they follow a church first and let the church shape their beliefs?
Re:Show HN: I made a new kind of Bible app by MattRix on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @07:17PM (#27598584)
Neither, most people are born into whatever church their parents went to ;)

But seriously, it really is a mix. A church can most certainly shape its members beliefs, but many people will also leave a church over issues like these.

Re:Show HN: I made a new kind of Bible app by Breza on Friday June 25, 2021 @12:02PM (#27632465)
That's an important question. I attend a church that I disagree with on some issues. What I love about it is that it's OK for me to tell our ministers that I disagree and we have a conversation. I mentioned that I didn't know how I felt about the topic of a recent sermon and I've been invited to work on a Bible study on the topic so the congregation can learn more.
Re:Show HN: I made a new kind of Bible app by theoblank on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @03:05PM (#27595762)
Definitely an important question. In an ideal world, I believe people would want to explore and learn from viewpoints that differ from their own (after all, how else can you learn?). But, of course people tend to be very embattled on issues like these and shy away from anything that sounds different than what they already believe.

One idea I have is to use a ML recommendation model that would use theological preferences as inputs. The trick would be how to personalize that model for a given user before knowing what content they want or would be put off by. Perhaps that could be part of the onboarding process though.

Re:Show HN: I made a new kind of Bible app by Syonyk on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @03:34PM (#27596136)
> One idea I have is to use a ML recommendation model that would use theological preferences as inputs.

Please don't.

If I want machine learning based AI augmented recommendations, that's literally the entire internet at this point outside a few niche circles.

A Bible app does not need to go down that path.

Re:Show HN: I made a new kind of Bible app by wizzwizz4 on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @03:28PM (#27596047)
My advice? Don't filter bubble. Instead, just write “disputed”, with a link that goes into detail as to what various people think, and why.
Re:Show HN: I made a new kind of Bible app by highmastdon on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @01:39PM (#27607437)
This would be great. It’s about the way the Talmud is structured. Every piece has multiple interpretations and they’re written together and can be discussed an though about
Re:Show HN: I made a new kind of Bible app by aae42 on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @07:28AM (#27603220)
Literally every view on there would end up marked "disputed"
Re:Show HN: I made a new kind of Bible app by wizzwizz4 on Thursday June 24, 2021 @10:23AM (#27617954)
Not every view. Some of them have an obvious, indisputable truth value – like “the start of Genesis 2 is just an out-of-order version of Genesis 1” (something I used to think until I looked at an untranslated version – it's obviously wrong, and only the specific word choice of a specific English translation suggests it could be right).
Re:Show HN: I made a new kind of Bible app by lalaland1125 on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @03:17PM (#27595903)
There is no need for ML here. The app can simply ask for the name of the person's church.
Re:Show HN: I made a new kind of Bible app by jtbayly on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @03:24PM (#27595992)
And if the name is "Johnsonville Presbyterian Church" then what?
Re:Show HN: I made a new kind of Bible app by goldemerald on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @03:30PM (#27596073)
They will have no free will but to accept the recommendations given to them. But seriously, most churches belong to a denomination. And practically all denominations have a specific alignment on every theological issue you can imagine. In any case, you could simply go with reformed theology beliefs and that'll work for most users.
Re:Show HN: I made a new kind of Bible app by dragonwriter on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @05:22PM (#27597393)
> And practically all denominations have a specific alignment on every theological issue you can imagine.

That's...not particularly true, especially for the denominations that are both large and institutionally old, or are newer but less centrally authoritarian. The Roman Catholic Church (for an example in the former category) for instance, has a small number of declared-as-infallible dogmas, a larger number of doctrines that arr understood to be certain or argued to have been infallibly declared, a wide space of broadly accepted doctrine about which there is still debate which is recognized as legitimate and not dissent, and plenty of open theological questions, more of which are added all the time, because changing circumstances raise new questions not previously considered, and change the factual context of previous considerations so that, even for doctrines that are solid, what piece of the prior articulation is the actual doctrine and what piece reflects the limitations of the context considered at the earlier time must be discerned, and is often actively debated.

Re:Show HN: I made a new kind of Bible app by gerdesj on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @08:26PM (#27599207)
"has a small number of declared-as-infallible dogmas"

There's rather more to it in general but the concept of dogma is one of the reasons that many Christian denominations exist - in protest of the notion of dogma.

For example: Papal Infallibility. The dogma of Papal Infallibility is that God created the post of Pope and inaugurated St Peter as the first one. God created the papacy for His purposes therefore holders of that role cannot be fallible. However, the Pope is a man (why can't Papa be Mum?) and I'm pretty sure that involves being a sinner. It takes some pretty fancy footwork to elevate a bloke who was a mere automatically sinning Cardinal into an Infallible Pope.

For me the whole crux (if you like) of Christianity is that the ultimate divine being became a person and suffered as such - if you like: They experienced Their creation first hand. I don't think you should go around elevating people into little or demi Gods - that's a form of polytheism. Funnily enough I'm declaring my own form of dogma: People are not infallible: Pope, Queen, nor gerdesj.

I do understand the Catholic concept of dogma and even why it still exists. It is not my point to belittle it either but there is quite a good reason why: "practically all denominations have a specific alignment." Those people find the concept of dogma and the like ... sometimes unsatisfactory.

Re:Show HN: I made a new kind of Bible app by tbihl on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @08:59PM (#27599431)
Your definition of papal infallibility is wrong. It is not constantly in effect, but has to be declared.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_infallibility

Re:Show HN: I made a new kind of Bible app by brightball on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @05:12PM (#27597274)
I hope other people got the chuckle out of your comment that I did.
Re:Show HN: I made a new kind of Bible app by amerine on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @03:27PM (#27596033)
Seems pretty easy, https://www.hrc.org/resources/stances-of-faiths-on-lgbt-issu..., most major denominations are open about their stances on LGBTQ things.
Re:Show HN: I made a new kind of Bible app by calvinmorrison on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @07:19PM (#27598598)
That tells you about PC USA. Which is a historical mainline liberal presbytery in the US. It doesn't tell you in the last 5 years a good number of individual congregations have left because of this very issue and emigrated to the EPC or other slightly 'less' liberal denominations. Or that PCUSA has been hemmoraging numbers for a long time. Or the PCUSA has often been thought of as a big umbrella denoms that has in the past allowed individual prebyterys (regionally) to have differing rules.

Or that presbyteries are not like catholic churches or anglican ones! There are no priests or higher authorities! Each presby congregation is made up of members, who elect elders, who then visit their local presbytery (the regional org) to vote on matters.

Most importantly, it misses the fact, that Presbyterian is an anagram for Britney Spears

Re:Show HN: I made a new kind of Bible app by sudosteph on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @08:03PM (#27599021)
You know, I thought I already knew everything you were saying... but I'm really glad I read until the end.
Re:Show HN: I made a new kind of Bible app by tptacek on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @11:03PM (#27600321)
You mean "Presbyterians", right?
Re:Show HN: I made a new kind of Bible app by jtbayly on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @03:36PM (#27596162)
Church name doesn't tell you the denomination. Do you know how many presbyterian denominations there are in the US alone? Most of them are probably completely the opposite of the PC(USA) on those particular issues the HRC cares to discuss at all.
Re:Show HN: I made a new kind of Bible app by microtherion on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @06:19PM (#27597967)
I'm sure Emo Philips could design an UX for that.
Re:Show HN: I made a new kind of Bible app by andrewmcwatters on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @05:03PM (#27597181)
This is pretty blatantly against what disciples taught.
Re:Show HN: I made a new kind of Bible app by brightball on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @05:11PM (#27597265)
2 Timothy 4:3-4 pretty much covers this head on.

Teaching that you want to hear essentially.

Re:Show HN: I made a new kind of Bible app by reducesuffering on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @07:53PM (#27598927)
It's a spectrum. On one end you can just find someone to teach and validate all your existing beliefs. On the other, you can blindly follow religious leaders verbatim; all the way into a cult, Southern Baptist approval of slavery, or Catholic indulgences.
Re:Show HN: I made a new kind of Bible app by andrewmcwatters on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @09:23PM (#27599624)
This is just handwaving.
Re:Show HN: I made a new kind of Bible app by vineyardmike on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @03:33PM (#27596121)
Showing people only a small view of a bigger complex issue is def not the way to go - especially when things like human rights are involved.
Re:Show HN: I made a new kind of Bible app by ngngngng on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @03:41PM (#27596202)
Does this app include teachings from Latter-day Saint theologians? While I'm interested in this, typically my faith is excluded from these sorts of projects, and often it doesn't take long when I dive into "mainstream" christian communities to come across hostility towards my faith or non trinitarian views.
Re:Show HN: I made a new kind of Bible app by ybbond on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @12:07AM (#27600682)
I also have difficulties to find good iOS app for Catholic. Nah. It's very hard for me to find any downloadable version of Catholic publications.

Anyway, that's too bad that you received that hostility. I have 2 mormon friends in my high school. They are chill and fun to hang-out with. They often invited me to join their church, but I can reject without making it a big issue.

Re:Show HN: I made a new kind of Bible app by wonderinglife on Friday June 25, 2021 @01:32PM (#27633866)
Hey, you might like to try get.catenabible.com - we have a large catholic, orthodox, and protestant user base interested in understanding Christianity from the early Christian interpretation. Hope you find it helpful, God bless!
Re:Show HN: I made a new kind of Bible app by wyclif on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @04:42AM (#27602253)
No, it's a Christian app, so no Mormon content.
Re:Show HN: I made a new kind of Bible app by euthymiclabs on Thursday June 24, 2021 @12:32AM (#27614018)
More accurately, I might say it's a protestant Christian app, whereas Mormonism considers itself restoration Christianity and may not fit as well here.
Re:Show HN: I made a new kind of Bible app by OxO4 on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @08:35PM (#27599266)
Can we please stop suggesting that anti-LGBTQ "viewpoints" are worth exploring and that people are just to "embattled" on the issue of basic human decency?
Re:Show HN: I made a new kind of Bible app by wonderinglife on Friday June 25, 2021 @01:37PM (#27633930)
Hey, good question ^^ we built Catena which only collates apostolic Christian commentary, which primarily comes from pre-denominational writers. Early Christian commentary is a deep source of original Christianity, definitely helps with accurate interpretation of Scripture, and you can filter which writers you would like to read from in the settings. Hope you find it helpful (get.catenabible.com)
Re:Show HN: I made a new kind of Bible app by aaron-santos on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @05:37PM (#27597543)
Upvoting and monetization come to mind. They are really the go-tos when it comes to engagement and growth.
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Re:Show HN: I made a new kind of Bible app by TimTheTinker on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @07:56PM (#27598957)
I don't think you'd actually hear someone saying something like this today, despite the fact that the theological divide between protestant and Roman Catholic remains what it has been.

I'm a non-denominational protestant, but my family is good friends with a Roman Catholic family down the street... we do have so much in common with them, despite our disagreement as to whether justification and righteousness before God is conferred on the basis of faith alone in Jesus Christ alone.

Re:Show HN: I made a new kind of Bible app by nyokodo on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @10:24PM (#27600088)
> despite our disagreement as to whether justification and righteousness before God is conferred on the basis of faith alone in Jesus Christ alone.

There is a strong tendency for Catholics and Protestants, when we all chill out and sit down carefully making distinctions about Justification, to find we agreed all along but had different language to describe the same thing.[1] I suspect it extends to other doctrinal issues and areas of genuine disagreement become much more productive when said attitudes and practices are adopted.

I also strongly suspect that most areas of disagreement between Christians are persistent symptoms of European Renaissance politics with theological rationalization.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Declaration_on_the_Doc...

Re:Show HN: I made a new kind of Bible app by x3iv130f on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @06:18PM (#27597951)
Heresy!

Speaking more seriously, most churches these days are very ecumenical since they have realized they have much more in common with each other than secular culture.

Re:Show HN: I made a new kind of Bible app by swiley on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @11:00PM (#27600305)
"Catholic" in church means something like "Common" in Desktop Environments.
Re:Show HN: I made a new kind of Bible app by Breza on Friday June 25, 2021 @12:02PM (#27632475)
"Catholic Lisp"