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Re:“Great resignation” wave coming for companies by throwaway894345 on Monday June 14, 2021 @11:02AM (#27503403)
To be clear, I'm merely saying "the complexities of the American healthcare system might be why Europeans are more inclined to take gap years". That said, I didn't know that European public health insurance was commonly contingent on employment. I would be curious to know more about this.
Re:“Great resignation” wave coming for companies by admissionsguy on Monday June 14, 2021 @11:27AM (#27503739)
I am honestly very bitter about Americans glorifying the European system while happily taking home 2/3rds of their 100k+ developer salaries and enjoying much lower prices of everything.

With regards to insurance:

- in some countries (UK, Sweden) - the insurance is contingent on having a social security number, so the coverage is pretty much universal for residents, but people coming from other EU countries will still need to work or register as unemployed to get it.

- in other countries, you generally need to be working or looking for work (i.e. answer phones / invitations from job centre and attend any interviews/courses they send you to) to be covered.

Some countries (Poland for example, I'm Polish) allow you to buy insurance if you are neither working nor looking for work. But as of December 2020, about 1.5 mln Poles are not insured at all. [1]

[1] https://tvn24.pl/polska/szczepionka-na-koronawirusa-czy-osob...

Re:“Great resignation” wave coming for companies by throwaway894345 on Monday June 14, 2021 @12:19PM (#27504472)
> I am honestly very bitter about Americans glorifying the European system while happily taking home 2/3rds of their 100k+ developer salaries and enjoying much lower prices of everything.

I agree, although I think the ignorance extends to Europeans as well. Europeans are often surprised to hear that American software professional salaries are ~60% higher than European salaries even after adjusting for taxes, healthcare, vacation, etc. Some will argue that the US cost of living is more expensive, but they're almost always comparing some major US metropolis with some European village or perhaps an Eastern European city. I've seen other arguments that the cost of housing in the US is comparable or more expensive, but they're typically comparing some relatively tiny European apartment with a much larger American home. Europeans seem to fixate on medical bankruptcies, as though these are commonplace for upper-middleclass Americans.

This was all a surprise to me, an American, who has tried earnestly to live in Western Europe for a few years, but found that I can either live in Europe or I can travel in Europe but trying to do both would likely be economically infeasible (even if I can find gainful work as a software professional, it would specifically be difficult for my wife who isn't in a hot field). Fortunately, now that remote work is catching on, it seems likely that my wife and I will be able to do more frequent 1-3 month stints in Europe while remaining employed by our American companies.

To be clear, I think the United States healthcare system should be reformed, because it doesn't serve the poorest Americans very well. However, the US healthcare system works pretty well for the upper middle class (if not the whole of the middle class) and above, contrary to perceptions I frequently hear from some Americans and Europeans.

Re:“Great resignation” wave coming for companies by astrange on Monday June 14, 2021 @11:12PM (#27510858)
> To be clear, I think the United States healthcare system should be reformed, because it doesn't serve the poorest Americans very well.

This depends on the state; Medicaid expansion is doing good things for the poorest people in states where it exists.

The US benefit system is tilted towards the poor, old, and people with children (distant 3rd.) It has some bad welfare cliffs for disabled people, and is the worst for middle class self-employed who aren't on their parents' insurance.

Unfortunately this last group includes all online writers and popular social media users, which is why they pretend it doesn't exist for anyone.

Re:“Great resignation” wave coming for companies by llbeansandrice on Monday June 14, 2021 @03:55PM (#27507467)
How difficult is it to work remotely in a different country? I’ve thought about doing this but it seems like it’s be a lot of hassle with my employer and navigating local laws in Europe.
Re:“Great resignation” wave coming for companies by throwaway894345 on Monday June 14, 2021 @04:40PM (#27508011)
My wife and I work for smaller firms. Both of our managers seem okay with it provided we keep American-ish hours. I get the vibe that they're just not worried about it, perhaps out of ignorance or perhaps because it just seems unlikely that a single employee working remotely for a short amount of time is likely to provoke the ire of any tax authorities.
Re:“Great resignation” wave coming for companies by majormajor on Monday June 14, 2021 @12:30PM (#27504637)
> I am honestly very bitter about Americans glorifying the European system while happily taking home 2/3rds of their 100k+ developer salaries and enjoying much lower prices of everything.

Why do you believe those salaries are the result of the American healthcare system? Per-capita, Americans pay more than anyone for healthcare, just in a very unbalanced way that dramatically favors those with a job over those without.

Regarding comparing tax rates, those six figure job numbers don't include the substantial amount the employer is paying to the healthcare company.

Bitterness about the salary gap is understandable, but it's misguided to say that the fucked-up parts of the US system are what has produced the high-revenue/high-profit companies that are driving the compensation levels.

Re:“Great resignation” wave coming for companies by throwaway894345 on Monday June 14, 2021 @12:46PM (#27504844)
> Why do you believe those salaries are the result of the American healthcare system? Per-capita, Americans pay more than anyone for healthcare, just in a very unbalanced way that dramatically favors those with a job over those without.

It doesn't really matter whether or not the salary difference is caused by healthcare or indeed that Americans pay more for healthcare. The only thing that matters is the post-healthcare take-home pay; if that figure is larger in American than Sweden for a given individual, then that individual is economically better off in America pretty much tautologically.

Re:“Great resignation” wave coming for companies by majormajor on Monday June 14, 2021 @12:51PM (#27504921)
But what matters from the perspective of the American complaining about their healthcare system, though, is if they would be even better off with their same salary but a less fucked up healthcare system.

As long as that seems to be true, you'll see people complaining about it, and they'll have a valid reason for their complaints.

Re:“Great resignation” wave coming for companies by throwaway894345 on Monday June 14, 2021 @01:10PM (#27505173)
Your point is valid, but I don't think that's what we're talking about in this thread. Rather, we're talking about Europeans and Americans who have the perception that the overall economic situation of professional employees is dramatically rosier in Europe.

Personally, I think we should have a single payer system if only for the fact that it likely better serves poorer Americans.

Re:“Great resignation” wave coming for companies by astrange on Monday June 14, 2021 @11:13PM (#27510867)
The other advantage of a universal system is, it still works when you're so sick you lose your job. COBRA is not good enough.
Re:“Great resignation” wave coming for companies by majormajor on Monday June 14, 2021 @03:22PM (#27507014)
Yeah, I was talking specifically about the "it would be nice to easily take a gap year"-sourced comparison of healthcare alone - though even that apparently is not so pro-Europe after all, with the folks discussing how you'd have to be actively seeking work to be covered.
Re:“Great resignation” wave coming for companies by vidarh on Monday June 14, 2021 @12:35PM (#27504701)
Notably, Americans pay more per capita for Medicare and Medicaid alone than many European countries pay per capita for universal coverage.

> Regarding comparing tax rates, those six figure job numbers don't include the substantial amount the employer is paying to the healthcare company.

To be fair, in many European countries - and certainly for Sweden - there's substantial payroll taxes paid by employers as well. Though to end up at 65% in Sweden even with employers payroll taxes tacked on, you're already earning a multiple of an average salary.

Re:“Great resignation” wave coming for companies by morelisp on Monday June 14, 2021 @12:14PM (#27504404)
Most (all?) European health care is not contingent on employment. With a few exceptions (notably the UK) it is contingent on being able to afford it, and one way to do that is following the rules to have the gov't pay for it. It's guaranteed, and highly regulated in price; it's not free.

The easiest way to afford it is to have a job. However, if you are willing to pay more (still much less than equivalent US health insurance, e.g. in Germany around 180€/mo) you can buy it directly. Or, you can participate in that country's social safety net which, yes, usually requires you to actively seek a job (often for some loose definition of "actively.")

Re:“Great resignation” wave coming for companies by throwaway894345 on Monday June 14, 2021 @12:55PM (#27504980)
This is just semantics. If you have to pay more because of your employment status, then the system in question is contingent on employment for all useful purposes.
Re:“Great resignation” wave coming for companies by morelisp on Monday June 14, 2021 @01:01PM (#27505071)
The claim is that "European public health insurance is commonly contingent on employment", not "European public health insurance monthly payments vary based on employment status."

The only way you could end up paying more is if you previously made an average amount of money, have a lot of savings, but now make nothing. Normally this is called "retirement" and if you didn't save enough for it, you don't do it.

Re:“Great resignation” wave coming for companies by mhroth on Monday June 14, 2021 @11:33AM (#27503833)
In Switzerland at least, health insurance is definitely _not_ contingent on employment. It is specifically a private issue.
Re:“Great resignation” wave coming for companies by Nursie on Monday June 14, 2021 @11:25AM (#27503711)
> I didn't know that European public health insurance was commonly contingent on employment

I'm not sure it is! It's not in the UK, certainly.

Re:“Great resignation” wave coming for companies by pyb on Monday June 14, 2021 @05:44PM (#27508709)
Nor is it in France.