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Re:Incentives in economics are wrong, but how? by tsimionescu on Friday June 11, 2021 @04:15PM (#27477909)
I vehemently disagree. Education is a value in itself, whatever its impact on the economy or on technology is. People have an innate right to be as educated as they want (and can handle).

Of course, it doesn't follow that they have a right to be considered researchers or publish papers afterwards, and the plethora of bad research may be a real problem. However, it should be noted that academic pseudosciences are not a new phenomenon, and they have sometimes been much more destructive than some of today's examples. Race science, phrenology, medicine in the time of bloodletting and others have been respected academic pursuits created by elites, not the result of anything like over-education.

Re:Incentives in economics are wrong, but how? by octopoc on Friday June 11, 2021 @04:58PM (#27478403)
But does education need to look like universities and colleges? Education used to look (for most people) like apprenticeships, which is more like a tutoring approach without study of anything unnecessary to your trade.

Maybe a better system in modern times would be a combination of mentoring with official recommendations and travel (to broaden horizons).

Re:Incentives in economics are wrong, but how? by gknoy on Friday June 11, 2021 @05:24PM (#27478699)
How would you study history, philosophy, or ethics, then?

Those classes covered things which I have never encountered in my _trade_, but which formatively affected my views on how one should treat others (or treat oneself). I feel like the stereotypical "liberal arts" education, in which one studies things that are not just focused on your trade, has an intrinsic value which is hard to articulate.

Re:Incentives in economics are wrong, but how? by eunoia on Friday June 11, 2021 @05:37PM (#27478816)
“You wasted $150,000 on an education you coulda got for $1.50 in late fees at the public library”

Of course not everyone is autodidactic so the path is not for everyone, but it is indeed quite possible to acquire this kind of knowledge/humanity outside of the university structure.

Alternatively: everyone should read the classics.

Re:Incentives in economics are wrong, but how? by quartesixte on Saturday June 12, 2021 @01:19AM (#27481760)
If you are fortunate to go to a top tier university, many of the non-STEM classes will (hopefully) be taught by Professors who are active contributors to their fields, and use their lectures as a "rough draft" of a future book they will publish. Of what value being at the "cutting edge" of literary theory is up for debate, but there are some things that aren't easily available at your local public library.

Also sometimes it's just cool to have the guy who wrote the textbook be your professor.

Re:Incentives in economics are wrong, but how? by closeparen on Friday June 11, 2021 @05:58PM (#27479006)
Missing:

- Someone who knows those books to explain and lead discussions about them.

- A place to hold those meetings.

- Some kind of accountability for actually doing the readings, writing the papers, and internalizing some understanding.

That costs a little more than $1.50 but it has no right to cost $150k. It's not like graduate student wages are expensive.

Re:Incentives in economics are wrong, but how? by wahern on Friday June 11, 2021 @06:34PM (#27479326)
Interestingly, my neighborhood public library in the Outer Richmond district of San Francisco offers free Great Books-style discussion groups. I never attended a session but always noticed the schedule on the bulletin board. Googling it just now, it's apparently led by members of the Great Books Council of San Francisco (https://www.greatbooksncal.org/).

When my children get old enough I hope to attend with them. I had the great fortune to experience a Great Books program for 2-3 years in high school (a pet project of a teacher who fought tooth and nail to fund that class) and consider it a formative experience.

Re:Incentives in economics are wrong, but how? by eunoia on Friday June 11, 2021 @06:35PM (#27479333)
Yeah to be clear I don’t mean to say a liberal arts education is literally only worth $1.50. I personally place immense value on learning.

Just to point out that much like working at a high level in tech, a degree is actually not a hard pre-requisite to having an understanding of the humanities, ethics, etc.

Also just like STEM, many will absolutely benefit from the structure of a university setting.

I just couldn’t resist the Good Will Hunting quote.

Re:Incentives in economics are wrong, but how? by closeparen on Friday June 11, 2021 @05:37PM (#27478815)
Everyone "can handle" arbitrarily much busywork. Whether the lights are on or anything is happening intellectually is another story. I would like to see every American teenager have that experience, but my experience was that in high school, the very top of the class caught glimmers of it occasionally.

I think when you send "everyone" to college, it's going to be no different for them than high school was for "everyone" (and for the smart kids in their less-special subjects): chug through the tedium with as little of your brain as possible, while away the hours and the months until you get to something you actually care about. That's a reasonable way to warehouse teenagers while their parents are at work, but 18-22 year olds could plausibly be doing something else.

Re:Incentives in economics are wrong, but how? by paulddraper on Friday June 11, 2021 @05:13PM (#27478584)
> People have an innate right to be as educated as they want (and can handle)

What year did that right begin?

Re:Incentives in economics are wrong, but how? by tsimionescu on Saturday June 12, 2021 @09:33AM (#27484361)
By definition, innate means that there is no beginning - it's as old as humanity itself.
Re:Incentives in economics are wrong, but how? by paulddraper on Tuesday June 15, 2021 @01:11AM (#27511553)
So ... Who violated the caveman's right?
Re:Incentives in economics are wrong, but how? by alexashka on Friday June 11, 2021 @05:10PM (#27478537)
> People have an innate right to...

No, they don't.