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Re:The right tag for the job: why you should use semantic HTML by admax88q on Sunday June 06, 2021 @03:15PM (#27415485)
If the browser would make the semantic elements actually look good out of the box a lot of developers would use them by default.
Re:The right tag for the job: why you should use semantic HTML by JoshTriplett on Sunday June 06, 2021 @03:47PM (#27415736)
If people could agree on what "look good" means, I don't think it'd be impossible to get the major browsers to update default styles. But every site seems to have a different idea of the look they want.

I'd be curious to see a somewhat-objective look at what's actually wrong with default browser styles, separating out well-established usability and design considerations from personal preferences and branding preferences. I wouldn't be at all surprised if there are near-universal things wrong with the default styles, and those might be possible to change if they can be separated out.

Re:The right tag for the job: why you should use semantic HTML by Swizec on Sunday June 06, 2021 @04:54PM (#27416232)
Based on my experience as a web developer working with many designers over some 20 years of design trends, here’s the problem:

Default styles aren’t pretty.

That’s it. They’re superior in every other way. You always know what to click, you always know what an element will do, how it behaves, the UX is consistent with your OS, etc. Default elements are fantastic.

Re:The right tag for the job: why you should use semantic HTML by felixfbecker on Sunday June 06, 2021 @07:11PM (#27417228)
> the UX is consistent with your OS

Buttons in Chrome on macOS look completely different than in native apps. Buttons and context menu in Chrome's native <video> controls look yet again different, following Material Design. From the things one could argue are good about native browser styles "consistency with the OS" is definitely not one of them.

Re:The right tag for the job: why you should use semantic HTML by markdown on Sunday June 06, 2021 @09:43PM (#27418113)
Not datepickers. The datepicker element is garbage.
Re:The right tag for the job: why you should use semantic HTML by admax88q on Monday June 07, 2021 @09:58PM (#27429805)
Too true
Re:The right tag for the job: why you should use semantic HTML by robin_reala on Sunday June 06, 2021 @05:31PM (#27416521)
Who cares about looking good, when we’re talking about working good?

Of course, it’s worth putting the effort in to both looking good and working good, but if we’re going to pick one, we should go for the second.

Re:The right tag for the job: why you should use semantic HTML by worik on Sunday June 06, 2021 @05:59PM (#27416745)
I think that is a false dichotomy.
Re:The right tag for the job: why you should use semantic HTML by lmm on Sunday June 06, 2021 @11:02PM (#27418567)
If we're a business then looking good and mostly working ok probably sells better than working good and mostly looking ok.
Re:The right tag for the job: why you should use semantic HTML by brailsafe on Sunday June 06, 2021 @11:19PM (#27418678)
I feel like this is only true in cases where either your product is your appearance or it's highly unlikely the thing you're selling can be returned.
Re:The right tag for the job: why you should use semantic HTML by shadowofneptune on Sunday June 06, 2021 @03:17PM (#27415506)
It would be equal effort to restyle something done with ARIA compared to a semantic element, yes?
Re:The right tag for the job: why you should use semantic HTML by admax88q on Sunday June 06, 2021 @03:19PM (#27415519)
Depends on the element, the select and input elements are notoriously difficult to style, which is why people often remake them with divs and JS.

Combo boxes are a fucking nightmare to style, as are checkboxes and radios. Buttons arnt as bad, but you still spend a lot of time fighting against browser defaults which differ across browsers.

Re:The right tag for the job: why you should use semantic HTML by pjc50 on Sunday June 06, 2021 @03:27PM (#27415591)
Isn't that an extremely moving target? What looks good is very subject to changes of fashion.

Your comment below about being difficult to style is more to the point.

Re:The right tag for the job: why you should use semantic HTML by loloquwowndueo on Sunday June 06, 2021 @08:30PM (#27417691)
A div looks like nothing by default. It’s probably about the same amount of effort to make a button look good.
Re:The right tag for the job: why you should use semantic HTML by tanaypingalkar on Sunday June 06, 2021 @03:58PM (#27415806)
You can reset your css
Re:The right tag for the job: why you should use semantic HTML by lolinder on Sunday June 06, 2021 @05:17PM (#27416416)
For some elements, yes. Many others have certain attributes that are completely unstylable, a lot of browser-specific attributes and selectors (not just prefixed attributes but also whole pseudoclasses), or both.
Re:The right tag for the job: why you should use semantic HTML by anoncake on Sunday June 06, 2021 @03:47PM (#27415729)
Unfortunately, Firefox recently actually stopped making semantic elements look native (=good).