News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Hackers breached Colonial Pipeline using compromised pass... by 1cvmask on Friday June 04, 2021 @07:20PM (#27400233)
They failed to implement multi-factor authentication on their VPNs. This is one of the most common attack vectors. VPNs by themselves are not enough. Over two thirds of corporate attacks with VPNs have been through compromised static credentials.

There are numerous ways of integrating VPNs with MFA ranging from a RADIUS integration to a SAML one. At Saas Pass the admin can choose and implement up to 15 different methods of MFA to VPNs ranging from FIDO keys to push approval to scanning encrypted barcodes to SMS (not recommended) etc...

Disclaimer: Worked on the design of some of the mfa interfaces for the SAML based VPNs and the access control policies.

Re:Hackers breached Colonial Pipeline using compromised pass... by jl2718 on Saturday June 05, 2021 @04:18AM (#27403236)
Personally I think RADIUS is a terrible idea. If that thing is compromised, or even the network or name service to connect to it, the attacker gets everything. Cert-based auth gives every client the ability to independently authorize every login without any ability to learn or compromise credentials. And there are lots of cert-based MFAs that require nothing more than a few lines in an Apache config, or even handled through the operating system to set up a vpn handshake.

One of my biggest contributions at one place I worked was to dismantle their radius auth and replace it with token cert auth. It’s hard to write about that on a resume, because people tend to be more impressed with complexity than simplicity.

Re:Hackers breached Colonial Pipeline using compromised pass... by er4hn on Saturday June 05, 2021 @08:04AM (#27404191)
"Upgraded legacy, obsolete, AAA service with modern and standards compliant solution"

And if it is ever asked about, boy do you have some great stories about upgrading from a system whose protocol name referred to dial in modems and used MD5 to obfuscate passwords.

Re:Hackers breached Colonial Pipeline using compromised pass... by qazxcvbnmlp on Saturday June 05, 2021 @12:37PM (#27406479)
Thank you. Not the op but I have trouble coming up with this stuff for my own resume.
Re:Hackers breached Colonial Pipeline using compromised pass... by g_p on Saturday June 05, 2021 @07:22AM (#27404009)
One issue in the critical infrastructure space is that many of these MFA solutions are less robust and resilient than no MFA. Anything based on calling out to an external service (Duo, for example) is likely to be less resilient [1] than the static, no-external-dependencies system they use for plain password Auth.

Clearly moving towards complex systems like RADIUS and SAML introduce even more moving parts that sit with interconnects between trusted and untrusted, internal and external components. That becomes a point of failure in the eyes of infrastructure companies.

The challenge here seems to be getting the IT world to understand the focus on availability in critical infrastructure - historically, the focus has been on availability first, integrity second, confidentiality third.

You could argue this shouldn't apply to VPN interfaces in to manage systems, but given the external dependencies of these systems, they feel far less likely to remain available than the kind of solutions the sector expects.

On a separate note though, critical infrastructure need to re-think their budgets to pay for their increased availability needs, given most of the commercial solutions are third party hosted "as a service" offerings.

[1] https://status.duo.com/history?page=2

Re:Hackers breached Colonial Pipeline using compromised pass... by goodoldneon on Saturday June 05, 2021 @08:22AM (#27404305)
Unavailability of Duo’s MFA product is extremely rare. But when it does happen, IT admins can switch to “bypass” mode to only require the 1st factor. So even though Duo doesn’t have 100% uptime, you’re no worse than no MFA
Re:Hackers breached Colonial Pipeline using compromised pass... by g_p on Saturday June 05, 2021 @09:30AM (#27404835)
Scrolling through their incident feed, it seems to be a bit more frequent than "extremely rare".

Remember that critical industry is a sector where patching software is viewed as risky, because changing anything when it works is seen as unnecessary, and would often have weeks or months of pre-deployment testing. They work on a different time-base to the IT world.

The ability to do a "bypass" is nice in theory, but the need for this option will resonate with the "old guard", who will be able to use this external dependency to keep it out.

Personally I prefer smartcard-based solutions for MFA, since you can do all verification offline without requiring any third party to inject themselves into the chain. I found a good example of a vulnerability this year in Duo that just shows their validation logic is complex enough that one user was able to pass 2FA as another user [1].

That's probably your second worst case scenario, with the worst being an outsider being able to pass 2FA. A well-implemented smartcard scheme shouldn't fail in this way, as you're distributing validation logic to each device, rather than centralising it and relying on a "trusted outsider" to give a "yes or no".

[1] https://sensepost.com/blog/2021/duo-two-factor-authenticatio...

Re:Hackers breached Colonial Pipeline using compromised pass... by sofixa on Saturday June 05, 2021 @01:21PM (#27406885)
Personally i prefer TOTP. It can be phone or card based, but it's very easy to use, deploy, and rotate. The logistics of shipping and rotating physical smartcards to employees, not to mention having said employees carry that smartcard around with them, seems too much for basically no gain.
Re:Hackers breached Colonial Pipeline using compromised pass... by g_p on Wednesday June 09, 2021 @06:21PM (#27454056)
One downside of TOTP is that there's no phishing protection - a TOTP credential can be phished, relayed and replayed in real-time.
Re:Hackers breached Colonial Pipeline using compromised pass... by kevin_b_er on Friday June 04, 2021 @08:27PM (#27400757)
And disused account, which probably means an employee who left.
Re:Hackers breached Colonial Pipeline using compromised pass... by gabereiser on Friday June 04, 2021 @09:56PM (#27401233)
This. Have a solid offboarding checklist that includes VPN credentials or any access to systems that employee might have. At this point I don’t have any sympathy for the hacked when it’s as simple as this.
Re:Hackers breached Colonial Pipeline using compromised pass... by rorykoehler on Saturday June 05, 2021 @04:55AM (#27403388)
It’s nearly always as simple as this. I got flamed on here for suggesting that Twitter just needs to follow NIST or similar standards to avoid the hack they had last year instead of hitting expert security researchers.
Re:Hackers breached Colonial Pipeline using compromised pass... by agsamek on Saturday June 05, 2021 @03:31AM (#27403016)
The offboarding checklist is not enough. You should have regular cleanup procedures which synchronize accesses with the main source of truth as well. There are too many exceptions and just human errors for a time constrained checklist execution to be enough.

Checklist is a 90% solution which might help here. Or it might have been the case where the checklist failed.

Re:Hackers breached Colonial Pipeline using compromised pass... by ed25519FUUU on Friday June 04, 2021 @11:26PM (#27401848)
Invalidating credentials should be a one-stop-shop action. There shouldn’t be “invalidate their email, invalidate their VPN, invalidate their corporate login...”
Re:Hackers breached Colonial Pipeline using compromised pass... by gabereiser on Friday June 04, 2021 @11:59PM (#27402040)
Exactly. If everything is based on SAML SSO this is easy. If you manage multiple user databases for access control it’s a bit harder.
Re:Hackers breached Colonial Pipeline using compromised pass... by mac-chaffee on Saturday June 05, 2021 @12:12AM (#27402115)
This is a requirement for ISO 27002. Just had to implement an offboarding checklist recently.
Re:Hackers breached Colonial Pipeline using compromised pass... by beermonster on Saturday June 05, 2021 @02:44AM (#27402790)
Can you explain this? I thought ISO 27002 was implementation guidance for ISO 27001. No mandatory requirements even the Annex A controls themselves aren’t mandatory.
Re:Hackers breached Colonial Pipeline using compromised pass... by mac-chaffee on Saturday June 05, 2021 @08:22AM (#27404303)
Good point. At the company where I work, we have an ISO compliance team that converts that guidance into mandatory requirements. So the authority is coming from company policies rather than ISO itself.
Re:Hackers breached Colonial Pipeline using compromised pass... by gabereiser on Saturday June 05, 2021 @03:26PM (#27407845)
Correct. Most companies won’t interpret and just mandate the guidance recommendations.
Re:Hackers breached Colonial Pipeline using compromised pass... by hsbauauvhabzb on Friday June 04, 2021 @10:01PM (#27401270)
MFA doesn’t solve targeted phishing and that’s something people keep forgetting. Sprays are just the best ROI, but if everything had MFA it would quickly create a phishing as a service business model.
Re:Hackers breached Colonial Pipeline using compromised pass... by foxpurple on Friday June 04, 2021 @11:39PM (#27401924)
If you use the physical tokens it does solve that because the tokens won’t authenticate on the scammer site.
Re:Hackers breached Colonial Pipeline using compromised pass... by mistahenry on Saturday June 05, 2021 @12:52AM (#27402313)
What type of physical tokens are you talking about and what exactly do they do to prevent authentication on the scammer site?
Re:Hackers breached Colonial Pipeline using compromised pass... by dkasper on Saturday June 05, 2021 @12:55AM (#27402329)
Yubikeys could be one example
Re:Hackers breached Colonial Pipeline using compromised pass... by mistahenry on Saturday June 05, 2021 @01:10AM (#27402399)
While mitigating a number of attacks, MFA with these types of physical tokens is still only as strong as their setup/enrollment process, which in many cases can be compromised via phishing.

From my experience, there’s a difference between trying to compromise someone with good opsec (many readers of hacker news) and compromising regular non technical people

Re:Hackers breached Colonial Pipeline using compromised pass... by tialaramex on Saturday June 05, 2021 @06:36AM (#27403811)
How are you envisioning practically attacking deployment of FIDO tokens via phishing? Compared to conventional phishing or spear phishing attacks this seems very difficult to execute.

Suppose BigCorp users are supposed to enroll the new tokens they all received at mfa.bigcorp.example which I dunno maybe they're reaching via a link from blog.thebigcorp.example because of course these organisations have a dozen different domains used interchangeably.

I can see how you could try to redirect some or all employees to mfa.b1gc0rp.example which you control, and that's an opportunity to steal their non-token credentials, but now their token doesn't actually work.

Even though they've enrolled with mfa.b1gc0rp.example you don't directly gain working token credentials for bigcorp.example this way, and almost as importantly for this attack, nor do they. So they're going to call the company IT desk.

I guess if you own a suitable token, you could conduct this as a spear phishing attack where the victim tries to enroll at your bogus site, then you replay the non-token credentials they used for that to enroll your real token on the real site, but again the victim doesn't end up with a working token, so it seems like you're up against the clock.

And while during the pandemic I'm sure new employees were routinely enrolled off-campus, I suspect that's just not the case in normal times, even at organisations which have a very broad work-from-home policy.

Re:Hackers breached Colonial Pipeline using compromised pass... by mistahenry on Saturday June 05, 2021 @02:33PM (#27407486)
I was specifically thinking banking and it’s exactly this type of spear phishing attack that happens (although with other types of tokens the Fido). In these scenarios, you only need to move the money once.

You definitely have a point with regard to non-transaction usage that requires long term access

Re:Hackers breached Colonial Pipeline using compromised pass... by spydum on Saturday June 05, 2021 @10:39AM (#27405433)
Most MFA solutions are vulnerable to attack because there is a real challenge handling enrollment and lost tokens. It requires verification of the user, which guess what? Hard to do especially with remote users.
Re:Hackers breached Colonial Pipeline using compromised pass... by user3939382 on Saturday June 05, 2021 @01:15AM (#27402424)
This is true, and the goal of Security Awareness Training is to resolve this problem. I’m a huge believer in it.
Re:Hackers breached Colonial Pipeline using compromised pass... by hsbauauvhabzb on Saturday June 05, 2021 @01:10AM (#27402397)
Domain checking hardware will mitigate such vulnerabilities, sure, but good luck seeing that viably roll out to SMEs.
Re:Hackers breached Colonial Pipeline using compromised pass... by tialaramex on Saturday June 05, 2021 @03:53PM (#27408008)
So, for any sort of FIDO token (a Yubico Security Key, Google's Titan, numerous cheaper products) the browser is working together with the physical token to authenticate you with U2F (on sites that didn't upgrade yet) or WebAuthn (the standard replacement)

It's involves some clever cryptography, and engineering. Here's an old ImperialViolet entry about it: https://www.imperialviolet.org/2018/03/27/webauthn.html

During enrollment the site gets a unique random-looking identifier, a public key and a signed message that proves your token knows the associated private key. It stashes the identifier and public key. They aren't secret.

During authentication the site gives back one or more identifiers to ask you to prove you've still got one of these tokens you enrolled, and if your token recognises the identifier for this DNS name, it can sign a new message with the corresponding private key proving you still have the token.

Now suppose I'm a scammer, I am trying to phish users of the site realsite.example with my phishing scam site fake.example but they all use FIDO tokens. I can get realsite.example to give me the IDs for tokens (perhaps I guessed the user name and password or got it earlier by phishing), but then I'm blocked. I could try a few things:

1. I give them the realsite.example ID and I pretend my site is realsite.example. The user is never bothered by this because their web browser knows this website isn't realsite.example, I'm clearly a scammer, my attempt is ignored.

2. I give them the real IDs from realsite.example but I admit to the web browser that this is fake.example. This doesn't work because those IDs are for realsite.example and my site is fake.example. There isn't any "Wrong name, override? Y/N" type pop-up, there's no way for any component to guess what happened, it just doesn't work. Maybe the user will retry a dozen times. Maybe they'll eventually spot that it's a scam. They can't give me working credentials for realsite.example because they aren't at realsite.example.

3. I give them a nonsense ID and I admit this is fake.example, this doesn't work, their token doesn't recognise the nonsense ID.

4. I have them enroll their token on fake.example. This "works" fine, but now all I can do is authenticate this user on my site, the resulting credentials are completely useless on realsite.example, these are credentials for fake.example and nothing about them is the same.

Re:Hackers breached Colonial Pipeline using compromised pass... by gruez on Friday June 04, 2021 @10:05PM (#27401288)
>MFA doesn’t solve targeted phishing and that’s something people keep forgetting.

any VPNs support u2f?

Re:Hackers breached Colonial Pipeline using compromised pass... by vladvasiliu on Saturday June 05, 2021 @03:18AM (#27402957)
While not U2F but pretty close for the issue at hand (preventing phishing), any VPN that supports radius as a backend can use Windows NPS which can be integrated with Azure AD MFA to send a notification to the phone.

You may still want to train the users not to accept any random request on the app, though. But this works (fairly) well and is cheap (no hardware token to buy).

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/active-directory/auth...

Re:Hackers breached Colonial Pipeline using compromised pass... by tialaramex on Saturday June 05, 2021 @04:14PM (#27408136)
Phone confirmation doesn't evade phishing. The user doesn't think the request they just got on the app is "random" because they think they're doing the right thing. The whole idea of phishing is to trick the human user.
Re:Hackers breached Colonial Pipeline using compromised pass... by mdeeks on Friday June 04, 2021 @11:46PM (#27401963)
Tailscale should (indirectly) with 3rd party Google/Okta/Etc auth.
Re:Hackers breached Colonial Pipeline using compromised pass... by galuano1 on Saturday June 05, 2021 @12:33AM (#27402210)
Cisco VPN does.
Re:Hackers breached Colonial Pipeline using compromised pass... by karmicthreat on Saturday June 05, 2021 @08:31AM (#27404374)
It gets to be difficult to constantly come back to management for money at a small company. The MFA/Identity services want 3-12$/user. EDR wants 4-12$/user. Phishing training, same. VPN (fortinet in my case) same.

The 57$/User of MS E5 is starting to look like a steal.

Re:Hackers breached Colonial Pipeline using compromised pass... by samstave on Friday June 04, 2021 @09:06PM (#27400975)
I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.

--

Seriously though - in your comment, you described the landscape of knowledge whereby it is EASY for any given corp to mis-step without a 'you' on staff or contract.

Now, as the NSA has released in the past best practices around security and such (like how to lockdown a linux box for example)

Wouldn;t it be prudent for the .gov to be able to present a salient security posture recommendation in such a format as you present above?

Meaning - WHY THE FUCK DONT WE HAVE A SECURITY.GOV WEBSITE THAT STATES EXACTLY HOW TO SECURE YOUR [THING] and CLICK HERE FOR EXPERTISE ON HOW TO SO???

We are in the Digital Nuke age. We should act as such.

You get the idea...

Re:Hackers breached Colonial Pipeline using compromised pass... by eecc on Saturday June 05, 2021 @12:15AM (#27402134)
I guess as long as IT engineers are kept outside of the “adult room” and treated like gifted children coaxed with shiny toys.

And besides, I only recently discovered - after proudly presenting myself as having a Masters in Engineering - that the title Engineer is considered poorly, a synonym to machine operator.

Re:Hackers breached Colonial Pipeline using compromised pass... by jldugger on Saturday June 05, 2021 @12:46AM (#27402278)
> And besides, I only recently discovered - after proudly presenting myself as having a Masters in Engineering - that the title Engineer is considered poorly, a synonym to machine operator.

And to me, the Masters is the damning part of the title =)

Re:Hackers breached Colonial Pipeline using compromised pass... by eecc on Saturday June 05, 2021 @01:52PM (#27407152)
Well, it’s relative: when discussing IT we’re still groping in the dark like in in the ‘800, when collapsing bridges and buildings or exploding locomotives were the norm and competence was viewed with contempt. So you might be arguing disasters are “move fast break things” and I might be the one that disagrees
Re:Hackers breached Colonial Pipeline using compromised pass... by Strs2FillMyDrms on Friday June 04, 2021 @09:34PM (#27401124)
While my dentist was performing a procedure on my teeth he received a call from a former student now teacher at the university.

The issue? A group of old professors chose to stop teaching a particular procedure.

Reason? Market prices of that procedure had began to be driven down by competing professionals.

She sounded so disappointed, as she should.

Never underestimate the power of greed against the well being of everyone else.

Re:Hackers breached Colonial Pipeline using compromised pass... by jessaustin on Saturday June 05, 2021 @12:18AM (#27402150)
Is this the first instance in history of "old professors" causing progress via any method other than dying? Who is meant by "competing professionals"? Is this a procedure that dentists do that e.g. hairdressers also do? (This would be more plausible if you named the procedure.) Hopefully you're not just lamenting the steady improvement in materials: it's not a problem that no one uses amalgam anymore. Also, there are several different types of dental schools operating in USA. The brand-new private schools can't really be held to the same standards as state schools and older private schools. They're just trying to pay off the bonds.
Re:Hackers breached Colonial Pipeline using compromised pass... by creato on Friday June 04, 2021 @10:59PM (#27401681)
This sounds possibly reasonable... If the price is low, the supply is high enough already, adding more supply might not be helping anyone, dentists nor patients.
Re:Hackers breached Colonial Pipeline using compromised pass... by nsomaru on Friday June 04, 2021 @11:04PM (#27401719)
??? You do realise patients are looking to get cured first and foremost…

The cheaper the better from that POV

Re:Hackers breached Colonial Pipeline using compromised pass... by HPsquared on Saturday June 05, 2021 @03:52AM (#27403119)
That depends, maybe the procedure is cheap because it's faster. Dentists would then be able to do it more often and still profit as individuals (higher volume). The ability of customers to save money, though, would result in less overall revenue for dentists as a whole. Hence the organised opposition.
Re:Hackers breached Colonial Pipeline using compromised pass... by breakfastduck on Friday June 04, 2021 @10:26PM (#27401443)
Appreciate your point but it's quite possibly the most 'USA' comment I've ever read.

Lets stop assuming these things happen elsewhere to the same greed fueled extent.

Re:Hackers breached Colonial Pipeline using compromised pass... by mardifoufs on Friday June 04, 2021 @11:24PM (#27401829)
Why? Dental work is not covered by the government here in Canada, and even private insurance caps usually have a very low amount that they cover (1-2k$ per year no matter how bad your teeth are, and a single root can treatment can put you over that limit very quickly). So it really has nothing to do with it being American and I think dentistry in general can have a problem when it comes to treatment necessity, over diagnosis and fixing things that may not need fixing.

Now that I think about it, I've actually rarely heard anything about single payer dental coverage, which is weird considering just how important dental health to life quality. Is dental work free in countries like Germany, the NL, Sweden etc?

Re:Hackers breached Colonial Pipeline using compromised pass... by lb1lf on Saturday June 05, 2021 @06:01AM (#27403672)
In Norway, most health services are funded by the authorities.

The notable exception being dentistry. The dentists (mostly) fight tooth and nail not to be publicly funded; the reason, of course being that the state holds way more leverage than individuals - and rates are sure to plummet once the state foots the bill.

If I go to see my doctor, am admitted to hospital or whatever, I pay a small deductible - $20-40 - each time; once my expenses in a calendar year exceeds approx. $300, I get a waiver valid for the rest of the year, capping my direct medical expenses (excluding dentistry) at $300 a year.

For comparison, last time I had a tooth filled a few years ago, my dentist charged me $300 for a 20 minute job.

Re:Hackers breached Colonial Pipeline using compromised pass... by 1vuio0pswjnm7 on Friday June 04, 2021 @10:45PM (#27401576)
Dentists outside the USA do this, too. I once had a dentist outside the US even admit this to me. She seemed embarassed by her former classmates from dental school who were operating this way.
Re:Hackers breached Colonial Pipeline using compromised pass... by Spooky23 on Friday June 04, 2021 @11:51PM (#27402005)
We do. The entire security industry is built around the NIST framework.

If you want more explicit guidance, IRS Pub 1075, DoD STIGs and other guides will literally tell you exactly what to do.

Egregious failure is always driven by lack of funding and/or motivation. Other failures are usually a result of a lack of defense in depth or compensating controls that missed something.

Re:Hackers breached Colonial Pipeline using compromised pass... by antattack on Saturday June 05, 2021 @07:45AM (#27404111)
They also failed to deactivate account that was no longer in use and/or have a policy for disabling stale accounts.