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Re:Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starti... by mFixman on Wednesday June 02, 2021 @10:45PM (#27376687)
A Google Employee working from home could save $200/day versus getting a fancy limousine to go to work.

Nobody buys prepared food every day, and the costs of food are negligible for a Google employee.

Re:Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starti... by gnicholas on Wednesday June 02, 2021 @11:04PM (#27376798)
I know Googlers who literally never buy groceries because they eat all of their big meals at the office, grab a bottled smoothie on their way out the door, and get restaurant food on the weekends. It is cheaper to get groceries than to buy prepared food, but there’s a lot of spoilage that happens when you’re only cooking 2 days/week.
Re:Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starti... by plantain on Thursday June 03, 2021 @01:01AM (#27377399)
I did not own a fridge or any cooking appliances for my first year at Google. 3 meals a day at work + takeout on weekends.
Re:Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starti... by throwaway2037 on Thursday June 03, 2021 @10:57AM (#27382328)
In my apartment, the number one electricty cost comes from my fridge+freezer. (To be fair, I live in the sub-tropics.)
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Re:Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starti... by gravypod on Thursday June 03, 2021 @02:12AM (#27377774)
Is there any particular component of this that disgusts you?

You could likely do that and end up spending less money than buying food and cooking for yourself. If you don't cook you can free up your time for other revenue generating activities, chores, etc. Total cost of 2x to 4x delivered meals in my area could be $20 to $80. That's ~$320 or 80 less then the $400 number quoted in other places in this thread.

It's pretty rational behavior from the employees side of things.

And, even before Google, when I started living alone I realized I couldn't buy milk anymore because I don't drink enough milk fast enough to not let it spoil. I've switched to soy purely because it lasts months I'm my fridge safely.

Re:Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starti... by leetcrew on Thursday June 03, 2021 @09:34AM (#27381063)
protip: the horizon organic (or possibly other ultra-pasteurized) milks last a very long time in the fridge. I only use milk for my daily coffee and I haven't had a single carton go sour on me yet. it's a bit more expensive, but easily worth for people who don't consume milk very fast.
Re:Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starti... by throwaway2037 on Thursday June 03, 2021 @11:06AM (#27382441)
In some countries, ultra-pasteurized milk (and alternatives) is absolutely the norm -- packed in tetrapaks. And I agree: it is freaky how long that stuff lasts in your fridge. As long as you close it tight, and return it to the fridge quickly, two weeks is easy.
Re:Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starti... by gravypod on Thursday June 03, 2021 @10:14AM (#27381674)
I will definitely be taking a look at that. Thank for the tip!
Re:Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starti... by Mauricebranagh on Thursday June 03, 2021 @07:01AM (#27379429)
And large numbers of people cooking at home is a relatively recent thing
Re:Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starti... by greedo on Thursday June 03, 2021 @09:29AM (#27380995)
I question the accuracy of this. I grew up where going out to dinner was a luxury; we went perhaps once a week, and sometimes that was to a McDonalds or pizza joint, not someplace that charges $30/plate.
Re:Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starti... by Mauricebranagh on Thursday June 03, 2021 @10:27AM (#27381867)
I meant going back a couple of hundred years - every one having a full kitchen and cooking most things at home is still in historical terms recent.
Re:Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starti... by greedo on Thursday June 03, 2021 @11:09AM (#27382480)
So in 1821 people were dining out all the time? I find that incredible doubtful, at least in the US.
Re:Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starti... by Mauricebranagh on Friday June 04, 2021 @08:55AM (#27393104)
Using collective kitchens and ovens
Re:Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starti... by kbelder on Thursday June 03, 2021 @01:48PM (#27384889)
I can't even imagine how anyone could think this was true, even in multi-generational upper-middle class urban families.

I don't think you're lying, although I don't think you're correct; I'm just amazed at how different people's baseline contexts are. In your context, that's a reasonable statement, or you wouldn't have said it.

Re:Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starti... by yourapostasy on Saturday June 05, 2021 @07:17PM (#27409228)
>> And large numbers of people cooking at home is a relatively recent thing

> I can't even imagine how anyone could think this was true, even in multi-generational upper-middle class urban families.

In the context of the sweep of human history of about two million years, people exclusively cooking at home being relatively recent is true [1]. Restaurants are a relatively recent invention [2] [3]. What we conceive of as normal meals is relatively recent [4].

Communal was the predominant cooking setting for many modes of cooking like baking for most of human history. This was because fuel was brutally time and energy-intensive to gather and prepare until our species started to master tool-making to a sufficient level that individual households at the mainstream level could afford the necessary tools. It literally took organizing a community to sustainably run much of what we take for granted in an individual middle class developed world household kitchen today.

Cooking over an open fire is likely the oldest mode [5], and that fire takes a fair amount of effort to sustain solely at the household scale, and the archeological evidence for humans routinely and widely making fire instead of sustaining it continuously suggests routinely and widely making fire is relatively recent (100's thousands instead of millions of years ago) [6], and even then it was common to borrow fire from a neighbor than making it, so arduous it was to make fire or expensive it was to acquire the tools. Our species only really started to relatively routinely cook during the Paleolithic age about 200,000 years ago [7], starting with open fire roasting, then proceeding from there (boiling came after roasting, ironic since boiling water is considered by us as how we start teaching children to cook) [7].

There is a simple experiment you can conduct today to validate this on your own: with nothing but a flint suitable for knapping (which in itself is an accomplishment to de novo achieve), and plain cotton clothing (to give you a head start), work out what it takes to start a fire, sustainably gather fuel, sustainably gather calories and nutrition, and scale it up to a minimum genetic variability group. It is incredibly exhausting, and prone to all kinds of failure modes.

The sheer amount of agonizing, brutal, incremental effort over the millennia it took our ancestors to "just" get to the stage to develop agrarian systems (and there is even debate if even that was a prudent choice [8] [9] [10], though for the record I'm pro-agriculture) is mind-boggling. By comparison, our current state of civilization is just LARP'ing "grinding", and gamers talking about grinding take that to yet an entirely different level. I give our ancestors their due: they were a set of some tough hombres, and we collectively do indeed stand on the shoulders of giants.

[1] https://food52.com/blog/17568-the-centuries-old-form-of-publ...

[2] https://www.history.com/news/first-restaurants-china-france

[3] https://slate.com/human-interest/2019/03/home-cooking-food-h...

[4] https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-20243692

[5] https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg23230980-600-every-hu...

[6] https://www.livescience.com/when-did-humans-discover-fire.ht...

[7] https://lithub.com/why-and-how-exactly-did-early-humans-star...

[8] http://www.inquiriesjournal.com/articles/538/was-adopting-ag...

[9] https://www.livinganthropologically.com/archaeology/agricult...

[10] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43118

Re:Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starti... by random_kris on Thursday June 03, 2021 @07:31AM (#27379653)
How much milk do you drink that it spoils? I can have milk for a week in fridge and it doesn't spoil
Re:Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starti... by gravypod on Thursday June 03, 2021 @09:24AM (#27380916)
About one bowl of cereal a week.
Re:Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starti... by throwaway2037 on Thursday June 03, 2021 @11:07AM (#27382463)
Fair enough. Zero trolling: Have you considered just buying a half-pint (~250ml) of milk at the covenience store, instead of (presumably) wasting much more? Just an idea. :)
Re:Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starti... by gravypod on Thursday June 03, 2021 @11:12AM (#27382527)
I have, and it still goes bad. I've done quarts and those still go bad. Pints might work but at that point it's just annoying because I have to head out for milk often. Soy milk works fine for me. I hate the idea of wasting/spoiling food and I've never had soy milk go bad.
Re:Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starti... by Cookingboy on Thursday June 03, 2021 @03:25AM (#27378161)
Why wouldn't you eat something free that's prepared by highly skilled experts with top quality fresh ingredients and a healthy recipe?
Re:Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starti... by ghaffro on Thursday June 03, 2021 @02:37AM (#27377894)
I, too, buy good quality takeout food about $30-60/daily. Please stop shaming. Not everyone likes to cook food.
Re:Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starti... by lupire on Thursday June 03, 2021 @02:10AM (#27377763)
Just because you overeat and overindulge when it's free and shoved in front of you doesn't mean you need, want, or will buy the same food if it's not.
Re:Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starti... by gnicholas on Thursday June 03, 2021 @02:32AM (#27377874)
That's true! But I wouldn't equate eating expensive food on-campus as overeating/overindulging. The googler I knew best who did this was vegetarian/vegan and very fit. She had access to lots of high quality food that matched her diet, and part of the reason she was vegetarian/vegan was because google's cafeterias made it easy for her.
Re:Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starti... by manmal on Thursday June 03, 2021 @03:54AM (#27378356)
Being vegan because the food is easily available? I’ve never heard that before.
Re:Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starti... by manmal on Thursday June 03, 2021 @06:08AM (#27379129)
I should clarify that my wife is vegan, and I‘m flexitarian/vegetarian. Eating at restaurants is often a pain because most dishes contain some kind of animal product. But I don’t see how ease of finding vegan food while eating out is a motivation to go vegan.
Re:Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starti... by OJFord on Thursday June 03, 2021 @08:51AM (#27380481)
Really? Turn it around, perhaps it's more obvious that it being difficult would act against any desire to be vegan?
Re:Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starti... by manmal on Thursday June 03, 2021 @12:01PM (#27383352)
Against the desire, no. I was speaking to that. Compliance - sure!
Re:Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starti... by taurath on Thursday June 03, 2021 @04:36AM (#27378566)
For me personally a buffet style place causes me to paradoxically eat less, as I was brought up with a lot of food anxiety so not having to ever worry about “enough” food I end up eating a lot more sparingly.
Re:Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starti... by travisjungroth on Wednesday June 02, 2021 @11:43PM (#27377001)
There’s a big jump that happens when you have no food in the house. No spoilage, no dishes, no pantry to stock. I didn’t even work for a company and this is how I lived immediately pre-covid in Mexico City. I kept the ingredients to make a protein shake, and had one at 11am after the gym every day. Then went out for dinner. That was the distinct downtime. If I wanted a snack, I walked to the corner store and bought one. It was a sweet setup.
Re:Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starti... by chris11 on Thursday June 03, 2021 @12:00AM (#27377076)
I'm not at Google, but while my office was open I didn't stock much breakfast food. The breakfast food at my job was better than I usually bought, so I didn't need to buy it.
Re:Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starti... by staticassertion on Wednesday June 02, 2021 @11:03PM (#27376788)
> Nobody buys prepared food every day, and the costs of food are negligible for a Google employee.

Of course they do? When I've been crunching, like just putting insane hours in, I've gone weeks without cooking and just ordering in. It costs a fortune, even at Google salary - or in my case, 'SF' salary. Not to mention the cost of living is already absurd due to rent - your salary gets eaten up faster than you might imagine.

Re:Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starti... by httpsterio on Wednesday June 02, 2021 @10:51PM (#27376728)
Yeah if I made Google wages I would not want to waste an hour or more a day on commuting. Plus, you can easily make food for 10-20 dollars a day so saving by eating the company food will cost you more just by colmuting and losing your time (or potential wages).
Re:Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starti... by ghaff on Wednesday June 02, 2021 @10:58PM (#27376761)
I certainly don't worry about what I spend on food and I spend a few dollars a day on breakfast and lunch. Maybe $10-15 typically on dinner (if that). Most people don't have the free breakfast/lunch/dinner some tech employers do. And my utilities might differ a few dollars per day if I'm home or not.
Re:Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starti... by jameshart on Thursday June 03, 2021 @08:06AM (#27380039)
Do you think googlers are paid by the hour?
Re:Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starti... by whiddershins on Wednesday June 02, 2021 @10:49PM (#27376717)
> Nobody buys prepared food every day

I get what you are trying to say, but empirically false

Re:Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starti... by randycupertino on Wednesday June 02, 2021 @10:52PM (#27376734)
> Nobody buys prepared food every day,

I know many people who don't cook at all and live solely on prepared food.

Re:Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starti... by bartvk on Thursday June 03, 2021 @01:45AM (#27377629)
Do you see more-than-usual overweight people in this group?

(Never cooking is very, very rare here in The Netherlands so I'm curious about any anecdata here).

Re:Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starti... by cco on Thursday June 03, 2021 @02:36AM (#27377891)
In my experience it is a horseshoe, people that eat out for every meal tend to be either on the high end of the income spectrum and thin or the very low end and obese.

These are broad strokes, but my experience in rural America and in SF bears this out, rich people eat out very often and tend to be fit and the very poor also eat out more than average but tend to be obese. Everyone else is in the middle.

Re:Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starti... by gargs on Thursday June 03, 2021 @08:14AM (#27380118)
Also depends on the cuisine. Quite a few cuisines take extraordinarily long to cook, and at that point, you're better off just eating out to save time (if you have the money) than deal with those meal-kits that are either not sustainable, or healthy, or often-times, both.

In The Netherlands, the cuisine tends to be really simple, and salad-kits and meal-kits are extremely popular. The fanciest food that people 'cook' is often a soup or pasta, and I'd say it's extremely rare for anyone to make pasta or sauces from scratch.

Re:Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starti... by rblatz on Wednesday June 02, 2021 @11:24PM (#27376914)
I buy prepared food multiple times a day.
Re:Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starti... by cm2012 on Thursday June 03, 2021 @12:43PM (#27383923)
My wife and I together spend about 3k per month on food. We're outliers but it surely happens.