> It preys on and fuels women’s insecurities to sell them throwaway products made by borderline-enslaved Cambodians.

It sounds like you've never used Depop or learned about it before writing this comment. Depop is the exact opposite. It's a solution to what you're framing as a problem. Depop is a way to recycle clothing rather than throwing it out and buying more - it is actually a reaction to the exact fast fashion you're complaining about.

The first R is reduce. The second is reuse. Our cultural obsession with fashion completely bypasses each of these.

Depop is reuse. Progress is made on the margins. Absolutist judgement of something a lot of people like does nothing to help.

I think depot would count as reuse, right?. Honestly, I'm stoked whenever we manage to make it past "recycle."

I'd be happier if they announced that recycling was fake and everything you throw in the blue bin is trash.

Perhaps, but I think it can be argued that it encourages more consumerism. The market for second-hand selling may encourage those sellers to buy more new.

Fundamentally the idea of an everchanging fashion is problematic, not just environmentally but also otherwise.

Oh, but those R’s are hard and not fun.

What’s really fun is throwing all anything plastic including wrappers, #5, #7, any metal, any paper basically anything but food into the blue recycling tub that someone comes to pick up and then I can smuggly look down on people that “don’t even care about the planet”, I’m doing my part by blankly assuming all my “recycling” isn’t going into a landfill!

... I wish I would still count the number of people that think that, but it’s too many.

I try to “not buy shit”, and Im pretty sure it’s a lot harder than wishcycling.

Unfortunately that's not necessarily the case. People run full on dropshipping businesses on Depop under the guise of handmade/second hand clothing. There is also widespread "thrift hauls" on Depop where 20 something rich people ransack thrift stores which are staples in low-income communities and sell on Depop for 10x. Depop doesn't do anything to counter the hypercapitalist and wasteful fashion industry - its just another component to it.

https://www.vox.com/the-goods/22396051/thrift-store-hauls-et...

This comment is pretty reactionary and maybe doesn't deserve a reply but I've seen variations on this criticism before and as someone that's worked in this space it doesn't make any sense:

> There is also widespread "thrift hauls" on Depop where 20 something rich people ransack thrift stores which are staples in low-income communities

This complaint seems to be based on a profound delusion, which is that the social mission of thrift stores is to provide cheap clothing for people who don't have much money.

The charity aspect of thrift stores, at least historically, has been the money that you give them when you buy stuff there.

So in fact the whole point of the enterprise is to have people who have stuff they don't need donate it to a worthy cause, who sell it to people with money who want it, and then they take the money that they make this way and give it to people who need money or use it to provide needed services etc.

Nobody is "ransacking" a charity by doing the exact thing the charity is hoping people will do, which is giving the charity money that can be used to further charitable activities.

> The charity aspect of thrift stores, at least historically, has been the money that you give them when you buy stuff there.

That's actually completely backwards. The public good that a thrift store provides is to make cheap, essential things accessible to people who can't afford anything else. Goodwill is a nonprofit because there is no profit in making cheap, essential things accessible to people who can't afford to anything else.

I don't know anything about Goodwill, but in the UK there are several charities that run shops and their purpose is as the parent describes - the shops generate revenue for the charity to carry out its work.

The first sentence on the wikipedia page on Charity shop [1] (and "Thrift shop" redirects to the same page) says:

> A charity shop (UK), thrift shop or thrift store (USA) or opportunity shop (others) is a retail establishment run by a charitable organization to raise money.

The Goodwill.org page About Us > Our Vision for Transformation [2] has a section "HOW LOCAL GOODWILLS DELIVER IMPACT" the third item of which starts:

> Goodwill retail operations generate revenue that supports our mission work. [...]

So, it's possible these things are dual-purpose and intended to meet both goals, or that some thrift stores have the goal of raising revenue and some have the goal of making recycled items available cheaply. But certainly parent's point is not backward - at least many thrift stores explicitly operate in order to generate revenue as a form of funding for charitable ventures. People with money buying things from charity shops helps the charities. It's what they want.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charity_shop [2] https://www.goodwill.org/about-us/our-vision-for-transformat...

If I could edit I would say "this overlooks the impact that thrift stores have on their communities" or something similar.

The difference between Thrift store prices and new garments in many cases is less than it used to be. Look at uncool stores, JC Penny, Walmart, and a few others, and you can get clothing for very little.

I’m not talking about Depop, I’m talking about why I hold the fashion industry in low regard.

Your whole original comment just seems pretty anachronistic in 2021. Especially as Pride month kicks off, I’d caution you against holding on to antiquated views that the fashion industry is only something for women or has to do primarily with their insecurities.

Whatever else it is, fashion to me is about both aspiration and inspiration. It is something that is creative not just for designers, but also their fans and customers. It is fundamentally about encouraging people to imagine themselves in new ways.

It is emphatically not just some one-way broadcast aimed at a certain, supposedly more impressionable, gender.

> I don’t dislike fashion because I’m a humble bragging genius. I dislike it because I think it’s bad for the world.

We could play that game for days, about most industries that feature prominently on HN. This looks like just the sort of narrow focus the original poster was talking about. Why are fashion products worse than new smartphones coming out every year? Because we personally like gadgets more? And if we were talking about a used tech toy marketplace, comments about how new manufacturing was bad would be similarly out of left field, since here's an example of reuse.

According to my reading, HN is full of complaints about new phones (and everything else, e.g. washing machines) being built with “planned obsolescence” as a goal, and praise for Apple for being by far the best in supporting old devices (but of course they could still improve!)

FWIW the iPhone 5s from Fall 2013 is still receiving regular security updates.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212341

Planned obsolescence goes beyond whether phone software gets updated or not. It covers changing designs so that you can tell one generation from another, so that there is social pressure to upgrade despite the phone working fine.

This article was about fashion, so it seems relevant. Other discussions about companies harmful practices often do sound off in the threads about those companies or fields.

I dont think anyone said one was worse than the other until you did - we can actually be against more than one thing at a time and maintain various levels of concerns across more than one thing at a time without constantly bringing up a list of all the bad things in the universe.

> We could play that game for days, about most industries that feature prominently on HN.

Do you have a moment to discuss my new crypto coin? It is specifically good at taking dinosaurs and making them money launder for drug dealers, murderers, and slavers.

All human activity except agriculture and medicine is a waste of time of you want to be strict about it

Fashion is self-expression and your own personal connection to culture. I don’t think nerds on HN generally grok those concepts but many other people in the world do. It’s very important to lots of people and it’s a lot of fun once you know what you’re doing.

The fashion world has abundant problems but it’s still an important industry. Preying on insecurities and using cheap labor is sort of a way of looking at all consumerism though.

People will often say "I don't care about fashion", then I point out that by wearing a dark monochrome tshirt, "silicon valley" hoodie, zip-up vest etc. you are showing that you are most definitely up to date on fashion trends.

Fine with me. If a bunch of smart people are going to lock themselves out of a multi-billion industry because they are too “enlightened” to bother, awesome. Less competition.

> it’s a lot of fun once you know what you’re doing

It's also pretty useful if you have an open mind and no idea what you're doing.

I don't really "do" fashion but I'm grateful for my cerulean sweater!

https://youtu.be/vL-KQij0I8I

Don’t assume that because I don’t like it, I don’t understand it. I do understand the venal emotions of mankind. That doesn’t mean I respect the people who stoke and exploit those emotions for profit. A lot of consumerism is ecologically destructive but only a small amount of it depends on actively harming your customer’s mental well-being. Fashion, Facebook, sensationalist media, etc. are all industries that depend on making people feel worse.

Frankly, you don't understand fashion. Fashion is not a new industry, nor is it parasitic. It's one of the oldest forms of self-expression and it makes lots of people feel better, not worse. Fitting in is always going to be stressful, but it's stressful because it's so important for social creatures like us. Fashion is simply a tool that helps people fit in. If you figured out a way to fit in that doesn't involve fashion, then power to you, but that doesn't invalidate thousands of years of people enjoying clothes.

I want to know more about this, but I have no clue. No clue if I'm fashionable at all. It's more like "Yes" and "No"

I usually recommend guys start with r/malefashionadvice to learn how to fit in, and then later on you can learn how to stand out. (edit MFA is US-centric but some of the concepts are still universal) It’s hard to fashionably stand out without knowing the fundamentals of constructing a basic outfit and knowing a little bit of fashion heritage, which you’ll learn from that subreddit. Once you’ve been there for a few months and learned all the standard MFA outfits, I’d leave and go in your own direction. People there tend to be a bit sanctimonious and rigid. Instagram and Pinterest are good places to find further inspiration once you have a bit of taste to filter out the garbage.

The fun part starts when you graduate from MFA and start to explore your own style. It’s rewarding to put together a visual identity that feels deeply personal, and then get a complement from another cool-looking stranger when you’re out and about. It feels like that person really likes YOU, and they probably do — and now you have the perfect ice-breaker. It’s just like working out; it’s an investment but there’s cumulative benefits in multiple aspects of your life.

> I do understand the venal emotions of mankind.

Thank you, this is now my new catchphrase!

Peak HackerNews

If your main “self-expression” statement is that you want to look like others, is that really self-expression, or were you just brainwashed?

This statement is really kind of funny, because its so stylized, so absolutely stereotypical that there was no way for you to possibly come to it creatively and originally.

Is some one buying momjeans on depop brainwashed, or is it you? If you aren't the one who is brainwashed why is your reply so ritualistic?

I think you're mixing up self-expression and being completely unique. Self-expression is about fitting in as much as standing out. It's about figuring out who you are, and how you fit into society. Fashion is about telling the world "this is who I am". It's a really good way to connect with like-minded people.

If you wear a business suit, you'll find company with conservative business people. If you wear all black, heavy boots, and band t-shirts you'll find company with people who are into the local music scene. If you wear Patagonia vests or startup hoodies you'll find company with people who want to code into the evening.

If your interpretation of fashion is "looking like others" then it means that your last encounter with fashion was when you were a high school teenager.

That's a pretty cynical take. Much the same could be said of any industry that relies on manufacturing and marketing. I think there's value in society at large - we are social creatures and relating to each other, mimicking each other, and other forms of communication are deeply tied to how we get along as human beings. I'm not saying fashion is itself necessarily useful at large, and it certainly has the issues you described, but it's at least a byproduct of other things that are highly useful.

Perhaps much of the same should be said of other industries.

>throwaway products made by borderline-enslaved Cambodians

Well good thing Depop helps consumers avoid buying brand new clothing items and encourages giving life to old clothes.

>I don’t dislike fashion because I’m a humble bragging genius. I dislike it because I think it’s bad for the world.

All of fashion is bad for the world? Is that really your take?

I guess at a high level, nearly everything humanity does is bad for the world. If that's your starting point then it makes sense?

Yes, that is really my take.

So, nudity is the answers. Also ban tattoos and hair styles while you're at it. And all self-expression, since that's also subject to the whims of fashion.

Thank you for enlightening us, Mr. Mao.

I know it's not exactly the be-all-end-all solution to the problem, but it does feel like good quality used marketplaces for fashion (like Depop) could help to counter that flow of 'throwaway products'. In addition, in the long run having a more liquid market for potential resale might encourage people to buy better, longer lasting clothes at the offset (but that might be a pipe dream on my part).

I like fashion because of the creativity

I also like that I know where to find people that have the bodies that less attractive women say are not real

Just don't say anything at the tech company, or nod and agree so that your coding academy graduates or state mandated board member doesnt axe your entire division, and then go get greeted by your bubbly atmosphere models after work

I think you have bigger fish to fry than a niche reseller app. www.walmart.com

Come on now, mens fashion is also a multi-billion industry

oh ... wait till you hear about the car industry.

I like to compare greed with steam and capitalism with a steam engine. It's noisy and inefficient, but that's the only tech we have right now.