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Re:The Apple M1 compiles Linux 30% faster than my Intel i9 by Bancakes on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @06:06PM (#27362035)
You know what's interesting, China and Russia have been struggling for years to get something on the level of intel Westmere. And here comes Apple out of the blue with a proprietary arch and hardware emulator; cinebench showing it to be around a x5650 xeon (Westmere). Easy.

M1X and M2X in the making, too?!

Re:The Apple M1 compiles Linux 30% faster than my Intel i9 by dathinab on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @06:58PM (#27362542)
It's not out of the blue and not even surprising.

Look at this from this POV:

- Apple started on custom ARM many years ago.

- Apple isn't really smaller then Amd, and Amd also rewrote and restructured their architecture some years ago.

- Apple hired many greatly skilled people with experience (e.g. which worked before with Intel)

- Apples uses state of the art TSMC production methods, Intel doesn't and the "slow" custom chips from China and Russia don't use that either as they want to have chips controlled by them produced with methods controlled by them. (TSMC production methods are based on tech not controlled by Taiwan).

- Apples had a well controlled "clean" use-case, where they bit by bit added more support. This includes that they could drop hardware 32 bit support and don't have any extensions they don't need for their Apple products, this can make thinks a lot easier. On the other hand x86 has a lot of old "stuff" still needing support and use cases are much less clear cut (wrt. thinks like how many PCI lanes need to be supported, how much RAM, etc.). This btw. is not limited to their CPUs but also (especially!) their GPUs and GPU drivers.

So while Apple did a grate job it isn't really that surprising.

Re:The Apple M1 compiles Linux 30% faster than my Intel i9 by panda88888 on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @08:07PM (#27363116)
> ... (TSMC production methods are based on tech not controlled by Taiwan).

Do you mean "TSMC production methods are based on tech controlled by Taiwan", or "TSMC production methods are based on tech not controlled by China/Russia"?

Update: after reading the thread I think I understand that you meant TSMC production relies on tech/equipment from ASML, which is not controlled by Taiwan.

Re:The Apple M1 compiles Linux 30% faster than my Intel i9 by properdine on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @07:04PM (#27362596)
> On the other hand x86 has a lot of old "stuff" still needing support and use cases are much less clear cut (wrt. thinks like how many PCI lanes need to be supported, how much RAM, etc.).

Good point overall - the performance of Rosetta 2 helped facilitate much of this and - at least from what I've read - does seem to be surprising to folks in the space. So that also helped them out.

Re:The Apple M1 compiles Linux 30% faster than my Intel i9 by bayindirh on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @06:29PM (#27362286)
> And here comes Apple out of the blue with a proprietary arch and hardware emulator...

Apple is designing processors and GPUs at least since iPad2's tri-core GPU. They're neither coming out of the blue, nor newbies in this game.

Re:The Apple M1 compiles Linux 30% faster than my Intel i9 by mhh__ on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @06:25PM (#27362252)
Not only do Apple have decades of experience both as themselves and PA Semi, they can also probably outspend efforts that this countries could do politically (Russia yes, China probably not, but you get the idea) especially when weighted against their ease of acquiring information.
Re:The Apple M1 compiles Linux 30% faster than my Intel i9 by ethbr0 on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @06:36PM (#27362356)
Also Intrinsity.
Re:The Apple M1 compiles Linux 30% faster than my Intel i9 by dylan604 on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @06:59PM (#27362549)
>China and Russia have been struggling for years

Sometimes it's hard to figure out all of the things left out of the plans that were stolen. Some engineer saw something not working, looked at the plans, and then noticed where the plans were wrong. The change gets implemented, but the plans don't get updated. Anyone receiving the plans will not have those changes. Becareful of those plans that fall of the back of trucks.

Re:The Apple M1 compiles Linux 30% faster than my Intel i9 by strangemonad on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @06:22PM (#27362215)
Definitely not out of the blue. This has been a long and steady march
Re:The Apple M1 compiles Linux 30% faster than my Intel i9 by foobiekr on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @09:08PM (#27363597)
The team behind the M1 has been doing high performance chips since they did a PowerPC chip in _2005_ and has been doing custom low-power apple arm CPUs for almost 14 years.
Re:The Apple M1 compiles Linux 30% faster than my Intel i9 by nguyenkien on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @06:17PM (#27362161)
Apple have at least 13 years experience.
Re:The Apple M1 compiles Linux 30% faster than my Intel i9 by GloriousKoji on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @06:18PM (#27362176)
Not to dismiss the hard work the engineers at apple put in but China and Russia hasn't poached as many engineers over the years as Apple has.
Re:The Apple M1 compiles Linux 30% faster than my Intel i9 by dathinab on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @07:06PM (#27362612)
They also don't use TSMC's sub 10nm nodes.

The whole point behind the effort of China and Russia is to have a CPU under their control, starting with the design but also including the manufacturing.

And TSMC uses technology for their nodes which is not under their control at all.

The amount of expertise China already has and will accumulate in the next decades should not be underestimated.

Re:The Apple M1 compiles Linux 30% faster than my Intel i9 by astrange on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @07:52PM (#27362982)
> And TSMC uses technology for their nodes which is not under their control at all.

Note it's also not under TSMC's control - a lot of fab technology comes from other suppliers like ASML in Europe.

Re:The Apple M1 compiles Linux 30% faster than my Intel i9 by nosequel on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @06:28PM (#27362281)
That's correct, China just poaches the tech when it lands on their soil without paying a thing. At least Apple pays those they've poached a salary.