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Re:Texas to allow unlicensed carrying of handguns by koolba on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @10:19AM (#27277067)
> The most ridiculous thing I've heard about all week

Indeed. The fact that we have to pass State laws to reaffirm rights that are explicitly outlined in the Constitution is truly ridiculous.

Re:Texas to allow unlicensed carrying of handguns by ceejayoz on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @10:23AM (#27277121)
Does the Constitutional right to bear arms on an individual level apply to nuclear, chemical, and biological arms, or is it limited in some capacity not explicitly outlined in the wording of the Second Amendment?
Re:Texas to allow unlicensed carrying of handguns by artificialLimbs on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @10:27AM (#27277190)
I'm in favor of private ownership of all these, the citizen not having committed any violent crime. Otherwise is instituting thought crime. It says "shall not be infringed". I'm not sure how people misinterpret that.
Re:Texas to allow unlicensed carrying of handguns by ceejayoz on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @10:30AM (#27277250)
A world where my mentally ill neighbor can nuke the town when he gets pissed off is not really one I'm interested in living in, and I doubt it's a scenario the Founders envisioned.

The First Amendment has similarly strong wording, but we permit government consequences for certain forms of speech/expression like libel, fraud, screaming in front of someone's house at 3am, etc.

Re:Texas to allow unlicensed carrying of handguns by vageli on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @10:43AM (#27277439)
> A world where my mentally ill neighbor can nuke the town when he gets pissed off is not really one I'm interested in living in, and I doubt it's a scenario the Founders envisioned.

This is a strawman, mentally ill individuals who have been diagnosed as such are already barred from possessing firearms.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/identify-prohibited-persons

edit: To the downvoters, can you explain why?

Re:Texas to allow unlicensed carrying of handguns by ceejayoz on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @10:53AM (#27277576)
> This is a strawman, mentally ill individuals who have been diagnosed as such are already barred from possessing firearms.

So, shall be infringed in certain scenarios?

Re:Texas to allow unlicensed carrying of handguns by vageli on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @02:10PM (#27280215)
The infringement is limited to a very specific class of people who are a small subset of the general population. Consider that convicted felons may not own firearms, is that an infringement? I would argue that it is not, as you lose certain rights when you are convicted, just as you lose certain rights when you are deemed to be mentally ill or of unsound mind.
Re:Texas to allow unlicensed carrying of handguns by ceejayoz on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @02:35PM (#27280522)
In other words, we agree "shall not be infringed" has exceptions, and are just haggling over where the line is.
Re:Texas to allow unlicensed carrying of handguns by psyc on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @10:55AM (#27277612)
Your wording is misleading. That applies to people who have been court committed (even the majority of hospitalizations are voluntary or tagged 'voluntary' as a courtesy), or deemed 'mentally defective' by a court. That is a much higher bar than what you wrote. There are plenty of people with mental health diagnoses who have never been court committed.
Re:Texas to allow unlicensed carrying of handguns by seiferteric on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @10:53AM (#27277573)
Obviously agree with you, though we dough have corresponding laws with guns i.e. brandishing, pointing or shooting at someone is a direct threat causing potential harm similar to libel or threatening someone. Simply possessing a weapon is not automatically a threat to someone else, it takes action. As far as nukes etc., legally not considered arms, but munitions so you do not have a right to have them.
Re:Texas to allow unlicensed carrying of handguns by jacobolus on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @10:23AM (#27277118)
The “right” for individuals to walk around armed all the time was invented by gun manufacturers and legal activists within the past few generations. That it is now taken as some historical/constitutional standard is due to an incredibly successful propaganda/marketing effort.

The constitutional amendment is about a “well-regulated militia”. The purpose was common defense against military invasion, not citizens having intramural shoot-outs.

Re:Texas to allow unlicensed carrying of handguns by calvinmorrison on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @10:46AM (#27277483)
> The constitutional amendment is about a “well-regulated militia”. The purpose was common defense against military invasion, not citizens having intramural shoot-outs.

DC vs Heller disagrees

Re:Texas to allow unlicensed carrying of handguns by jimbilly22 on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @12:48PM (#27279164)
Nope. This is simply factually incorrect.

Take the Pennsylvania constitution, written also in 1776 (by many of the same authors, as we know, as the federal constitution). They also have a "2a" clause. Below:

"That the people have a right to bear arms for the defense of themselves and the state"

There is simply no other way to interpret it -- the 2a was meant as an individual right to own common-use firearms.

Anyone who says otherwise, and is educated on the matter, is lying.

Re:Texas to allow unlicensed carrying of handguns by nr2x on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @10:22AM (#27277103)
Please explain how this harmonizes with the “well regulated” clause of the second amendment.
Re:Texas to allow unlicensed carrying of handguns by koolba on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @10:28AM (#27277202)
> Please explain how this harmonizes with the “well regulated” clause.

The full wording of the 2nd amendment is:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

The phrase "well regulated" means "well supplied", as in lots of guns and ammo, i.e. ready for battle, It does not mean "lots of government regulations" to restrict the rights of individuals to bear arms. The mention of the militia is an additional reason for the people to bear arms beyond their intrinsic individual right.

Re:Texas to allow unlicensed carrying of handguns by jfk13 on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @10:37AM (#27277350)
That's an, ahhh, "interesting" reinterpretation of the phrase. I'm sure it's an attractive understanding if it suits your political stance, but I don't see any support for it in the dictionary...
Re:Texas to allow unlicensed carrying of handguns by koolba on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @10:53AM (#27277581)
The Supreme Court of the United States agrees[1] with that definition:

> Finally, the adjective “well-regulated” implies nothing more than the imposition of proper discipline and training. See Johnson 1619 (“Regulate”: “To adjust by rule or method”); Rawle 121–122; cf. Va. Declaration of Rights§13 (1776), in 7 Thorpe 3812, 3814 (referring to “a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms”).

[1]: https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/07pdf/07-290.pdf

Re:Texas to allow unlicensed carrying of handguns by ceejayoz on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @11:32AM (#27278161)
You originally said "The phrase 'well regulated' means 'well supplied', as in lots of guns and ammo", but your quote says it means "the imposition of proper discipline and training".

It doesn't seem like they agree with you?

I'd be much more comfortable with gun ownership requiring "proper discipline and training".

Re:Texas to allow unlicensed carrying of handguns by nr2x on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @01:17PM (#27279552)
Worth pointing out the “minority” in the case represent far more Americans than the court’s “majority” appointed by people who lost the popular vote.
Re:Texas to allow unlicensed carrying of handguns by koolba on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @02:10PM (#27280217)
> Worth pointing out the “minority” in the case represent far more Americans than the court’s “majority” appointed by people who lost the popular vote.

That's neither relevant nor true.

The case, D.C. v. Heller[1], was decided 5-4 with Scalia, joined by Roberts, Kennedy, Thomas, Alito, representing the majority.

Scalia (1986) and Kennedy (1987) were nominated by President Reagan who had won the 1984 election with 58.8% of the vote (v.s. 40.6% for Mondale).

Thomas (1991) was nominated by President Bush who had won the 1988 election with 53.4% of the vote (vs. 45.6% for Dukakis).

Roberts (2005) and Alito (2005) were nominated by President Bush who had won the 2004 election with 50.7% of the vote (v.s. 48.3% for Kerry).

Not some, __all__, of the justices that decided that case were appointed by Presidents who had won both the popular vote and the electoral college.

Not that it matters though. A justice appointed by a President who only wins the electoral college is just as much as a justice.

Re:Texas to allow unlicensed carrying of handguns by jfk13 on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @05:12PM (#27282735)
And none of that is relevant to the point that your quote from the Supreme Court doesn't even remotely support the interpretation you claimed.
Re:Texas to allow unlicensed carrying of handguns by koolba on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @07:12PM (#27283986)
I was responding to the nonsensical and incorrect argument about the makeup of the court that decided Heller.

A militia is made up of ordinary citizens. It’s armaments are those of its members. It’s not a separate body. For it to be in working order, the populace are the ones that need to be armed and their right to bear those arms must not be infringed.

Note that the militia angle is merely an additional reasoning for why those rights exist. It’s an example, not a precondition.

Re:Texas to allow unlicensed carrying of handguns by jfk13 on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @05:09PM (#27282702)
Surely judicial decisions shouldn't be dictated by "the popular vote" anyway.

But then, one of the tragedies of modern America is that the Supreme Court seems to have become as much a political entity as a judicial one.