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Re:Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly reve... by hpaavola on Sunday May 23, 2021 @07:18AM (#27254181)
"I hope multiple App Stores don’t become a thing on iOS. The reason I like iPhone is that I am assured that apps I download from App Store are not shit and curated by Apple."

Then dont install those other app stores and only rely on apples curated list, if other app stores ever become a thing on ios.

Re:Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly reve... by cygx on Sunday May 23, 2021 @07:47AM (#27254345)
The counter-argument runs like this:

Third party developers want to get their apps onto the iPhone, because the platform has a lot of users, and there's a lot of money to be made. However, they will be forced to play by Apple's rules, which (according to the argument) is good for the customer, as the custodian of the platform has a vested interest in keeping them happy.

Now, if 3rd party stores were allowed, Apple's bargaining power which allowed them to force 3rd parties to respect the user's interest would go away, allowing developers to deliver a worse (eg privacy-violating) product.

Users who do not like this deal are free to go with an Android device instead of an iPhone. The popularity of the latter might suggest that quite a few people are reasonably happy with the status quo.

Re:Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly reve... by hpaavola on Sunday May 23, 2021 @08:07AM (#27254447)
Counter-argument to what? As Android shows, allowing 3rd party appstores has 0 effect on the main appstore offering.
Re:Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly reve... by merrywhether on Sunday May 23, 2021 @11:59AM (#27255980)
But if the iOS store is so much worse for devs than the Play store, wouldn’t there be more incentive for devs to push for a legitimate alt store to succeed on iOS?
Re:Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly reve... by d3nj4l on Sunday May 23, 2021 @12:06PM (#27256051)
Android's third-party app stores have been majorly gimped for a long time unless they were installed by the manufacturer. Further, they don't even have great reach even if they're installed as such, as evidenced by Epic wanting Fortnite back on the Play Store despite it being available on the Galaxy store.
Re:Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly reve... by stale2002 on Sunday May 23, 2021 @08:50PM (#27260055)
> Apple's bargaining power which allowed them to force 3rd parties

You are literally saying that you agree that Apple has very serious market power, and has the ability to force the rest of the market, to do what it wants, using its illegal, anticompetitive behavior.

Go ahead and say that you want this. But you are just straight up admitting that Apple has anti-trust level market power, and is using illegal anti-competitive behavior.

Therefore, they would lose the lawsuit, under your argument.

Re:Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly reve... by wayneftw on Sunday May 23, 2021 @08:21AM (#27254511)
> The popularity of the latter might suggest that quite a few people are reasonably happy with the status quo.

People haven't thought it through at all. If they've even considered this aspect of it, I'd be surprised.

iPhone popularity is due to a mix of very good engineering, presentation, marketing and network effects.

Smartphones are also very, very new for people. Give them time and they'll rebel against a single point of control sooner or later.

Re:Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly reve... by MomoXenosaga on Sunday May 23, 2021 @12:36PM (#27256352)
Android already has the majority of the market. Apple is, perhaps deliberately, pricing themselves out of the emerging markets in Africa and Asia.

It's the reason why I don't even really give a toss: there's nothing on iOS that you can't get on Android.

Re:Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly reve... by lanstin on Sunday May 23, 2021 @01:07PM (#27256612)
Except a lower chance of trouble if you down load an app without some security assessment of it.
Re:Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly reve... by wayneftw on Sunday May 23, 2021 @08:29PM (#27259933)
> Android already has the majority of the market.

Not in the US market where iPhones have the great majority and where this trial is taking place.

There are also definitely iOS exclusives.

Re:Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly reve... by cygx on Sunday May 23, 2021 @08:30AM (#27254547)
> Give them time and they'll rebel against a single point of control sooner or later.

Who knows. Gaming consoles have had a decent run, but of course that may not be that good a precedent as they've not evolved into general-purpose computing devices to the same degree that phones have...

Re:Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly reve... by pseudo0 on Sunday May 23, 2021 @09:08AM (#27254761)
The customers who don't like the console system can game on a PC. It's not a perfect substitute, but it's pretty close. Is there any real equivalent that offers more user control for smartphones though? Stock Android is a bit less restrictive, but still pretty bad, and custom ROMs are extremely niche.
Re:Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly reve... by ThatPlayer on Sunday May 23, 2021 @05:16PM (#27258665)
The question is does Apple's bargaining power come from monopoly power? That's exactly what makes it anti-competitive.
Re:Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly reve... by hpaavola on Sunday May 23, 2021 @07:28AM (#27254228)
vbezhenar, for some reason there is no reply link visible in your commenr, so have to reply like this.

"It'll end up similarly to macOS AppStore. Developers will avoid it, so user will be forced to use other stores to make his phone useful."

So, kinda like on Androi... No, wait. It wont. Other stores will be in the margins likd on Android.

Re:Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly reve... by maccard on Sunday May 23, 2021 @07:48AM (#27254350)
Have you seen the prompt you get when you install an app outside the play store, (and even worse give it permission to install other apps)?

Epic have made instructions on how to do it [0], it's a four step process to be able to install the game that involves changing two system default settings that both warn you not to do what you're about to do.

[0] https://www.epicgames.com/fortnite/en-US/mobile/android/new-...

Re:Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly reve... by hpaavola on Sunday May 23, 2021 @07:52AM (#27254367)
I'm happy F-Droid user, so yes, i know the process.
Re:Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly reve... by maccard on Sunday May 23, 2021 @07:45AM (#27254327)
The reality of what ends up happening is you end up with an app store per publisher, and needing to manage your payment details with each one individually, and deal with each stores handling of your data. I don't want to install the NYT store to download the nyt cooking app so they can take a bigger cut on their subscription. The reason this hasn't happened on Android is because you get a scary warning when you install apps from other sources.
Re:Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly reve... by perryizgr8 on Sunday May 23, 2021 @10:19PM (#27260531)
> I don't want to install the NYT store to download the nyt cooking app so they can take a bigger cut on their subscription.

Then don't. Nobody is forcing you. That's what this is all about, not forcing people.

Re:Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly reve... by ssaturn on Sunday May 23, 2021 @01:29PM (#27256808)
Except android has multiple app stores and most people just end up using the main one. There is no good reason to restrict user choice
Re:Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly reve... by hpaavola on Sunday May 23, 2021 @07:47AM (#27254337)
Exactly what's blocking apple from using same kinda warning? So no, it wont happen.
Re:Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly reve... by maccard on Sunday May 23, 2021 @07:50AM (#27254358)
Good thing epic aren't suing google at the same time for the exact reason we're discussing right here then isn't it?
Re:Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly reve... by hpaavola on Sunday May 23, 2021 @07:56AM (#27254386)
Epic is free to sue who ever they whish. That means nothing. The argument was that 3rd party app stores would somehow affect apples appstore quality. That's false. If apple would allow installing apps from unknown sources and just give ugly warnings then, thus letting 3rd party appstores on ios, it would have no effect on qpple appstore content.
Re:Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly reve... by cygx on Sunday May 23, 2021 @08:19AM (#27254503)
> The argument was that 3rd party app stores would somehow affect apples appstore quality. That's false.

With Apple in control, the developer faces the choice to play by Apple's rules, or lose out on the money to be made in their walled garden.

With Apple no longer in control, the user now faces the choice to play by the developer's rules, or lose out on the app.

That said, I'm actually not a fan of the walled garden approach, and won't be buying an iPhone in the forseeable future. It's just that I do understand the appeal.

Re:Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly reve... by Sargos on Sunday May 23, 2021 @12:05PM (#27256036)
>With Apple in control, the developer faces the choice to play by Apple's rules, or lose out on the money to be made in their walled garden.

>With Apple no longer in control, the user now faces the choice to play by the developer's rules, or lose out on the app.

Android has proven this is not true. Google has the same policies as Apple and does allow alternative app stores. Turns out the world works in a common sense way and everything turned out fine.

Re:Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly reve... by maccard on Sunday May 23, 2021 @08:26AM (#27254529)
Do you think the existence of the epic store on wjncows has had an effect on the content of steam?

A really good example right now is riot. They distribute through their own launcher on PC rather than on steam. They have two sizeable games on mobile right now (wild rift and TFT). In a world where these are downloadable from the riot launcher on iOS rather than the app store, it seems likely riot (and other major publishers who do the same on PC) would follow suit? I don't see how having an app store without hearthstone, TFT, fortnite is the same quality as one with.

Re:Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly reve... by hpaavola on Sunday May 23, 2021 @09:23AM (#27254847)
Instead of trying to compare to other totally different products, do the comparison to Android. Has any 3rd party appstore affected play store in any way? No. Start your argument from that fact.
Re:Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly reve... by maccard on Sunday May 23, 2021 @10:22AM (#27255178)
Yes. Fortnite isn't on the play store.
Re:Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly reve... by hpaavola on Sunday May 23, 2021 @11:05AM (#27255462)
And it's not in apple appstore neither, so clearly the reason is not the fact that non-playstore apps can be installed.
Re:Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly reve... by paulmd on Sunday May 23, 2021 @05:43PM (#27258863)
fortnite was in the app store until epic game's account was terminated for terms-of-service violations, so whatever point you're trying to make here isn't correct.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53955183

Re:Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly reve... by hpaavola on Monday May 24, 2021 @12:21AM (#27261060)
The original argument was that 3rd party appstores would somehow affect the main appstore quality. And that argument is bs as Android demonstrates. So, please read the discussion and only comment once you understand the topic.
Re:Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly reve... by vbezhenar on Sunday May 23, 2021 @07:23AM (#27254211)
It'll end up similarly to macOS AppStore. Developers will avoid it, so user will be forced to use other stores to make his phone useful.