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Re:How Japanese technology shaped dance music by hfkfmtkrkf on Sunday May 23, 2021 @06:18AM (#27253886)
While the Japanese are amazing at hardware, they seem totally incapable of building world class software.

No notable audio production software or soft synth plugins is Japanese, which is weird, considering that many of their synths are digital in nature (thus contain basically a soft-synth).

Same thing in cameras, Nikon, Canon, Pentax, Sony built amazing camera yet the camera software is basically stuck in the 90s, not to mention stuff like Instagram...

Re:How Japanese technology shaped dance music by mlacks on Sunday May 23, 2021 @12:03PM (#27256021)
NalNezumi 6 days ago [–]

While establishing a "cause & effect" here seems very hard, from my personal experience working in software field in Japan, I think the winning concept here is actually the combination of removing middleman and paying good salaries. Japan is very very behind in IT/digitalization compared to most western countries. This doesn't just mean it's behind in product portfolio and quality, but that perception of software engineer & managers and still quite behind. The respect that a lot of software engineers enjoys in US/EU is not quite there yet in Japan(and salary often reflect this).

The C-suite usually doesn't have a firm understanding of software/IT world, and instead ends-up hiring a lot of "Scrum-experts/Agile coaches" and hires software engineers from consultancy or recruitment companies for cheap. There's ofc companies that doesn't fall in this category, but for middle-sized companies in Japan (which is the bulk of the economy), this is the true state of things. Middle-men in Japan have therefore been way more encroaching on this, and they have the incentive to not improve the respect/social standing the software engineers have.

"Removing managers" in this article does not mean the same thing as it would in US/EU, conditions are different.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27178486

Re:How Japanese technology shaped dance music by Kye on Sunday May 23, 2021 @09:25AM (#27254852)
>> "No notable audio production software or soft synth plugins is Japanese, which is weird, considering that many of their synths are digital in nature (thus contain basically a soft-synth)."

Synth1 is well-known in electronic music.

>> "Same thing in cameras, Nikon, Canon, Pentax, Sony built amazing camera yet the camera software is basically stuck in the 90s, not to mention stuff like Instagram..."

I aim the camera. I press the button. It puts the resulting readings from the sensor in a raw file on the SD card. This has worked without fail for thousands of pictures. The rare times I need to use anything I can't get to with a physical button, they're all easily accessed on a single screen by touch with the i button. What else do I need? They keep piling connectivity junk on, but airplane mode shuts it down.

Re:How Japanese technology shaped dance music by user-the-name on Sunday May 23, 2021 @10:14AM (#27255123)
The things new iPhones do with software and camera is both absolutely revolutionary and completely unheard of in the world of big cameras.
Re:How Japanese technology shaped dance music by Kye on Sunday May 23, 2021 @01:26PM (#27256772)
My point was the in-camera software doesn't matter for my use case as long as it stays out of the way. The person I replied to didn't specify what kind of camera. The brands in the list implied non-phone cameras to me.
Re:How Japanese technology shaped dance music by user-the-name on Monday May 24, 2021 @04:19AM (#27262114)
The point is, there is a LOT more the software can do for you than "stay out of the way". The software can do massive things for your image quality and assisting you in bad conditions. But big cameras do not even try.
Re:How Japanese technology shaped dance music by Kye on Monday May 24, 2021 @08:52AM (#27263728)
I don't want them to try. I don't care if the features are there as long as I can turn them off, but I don't want it. The things I can do off-camera will always be far ahead of whatever's inside.

Capture One/Lightroom and Affinity Photo/Photoshop will have those features with higher quality long before they reach non-phone cameras. They work with the raw data right off the sensor. Nothing done with the limited power of an on-board processor will beat a good raw processor in pulling a good photo out of subpar conditions.

Re:How Japanese technology shaped dance music by user-the-name on Monday May 24, 2021 @11:03AM (#27265190)
You absolutely can not do the kinds of things the iPhone does off-camera.

The iPhone can do three-second exposures free-handed, and have them come out pretty sharp without even trying to hold the phone still. That is not something you do in postprocessing.

Re:How Japanese technology shaped dance music by Kye on Monday May 24, 2021 @11:14AM (#27265301)
I can absolutely do three-second exposures free-handed. It takes a lot of practice and isn't very consistent. But why in the world would I do that? I can get as much light in one as an iPhone can fake in three, and I can always get a pocket tripod or monopod if I really need three seconds. You're inventing problems with better cameras to make the things you have to do to overcome the limitations of a smaller sensor sound impressive.

That's really the point. If all I had was a phone camera, I would be glad for all this software support. For all the times I have my DSLR, the 10x bigger sensor obviates the need for all of that.

Re:How Japanese technology shaped dance music by user-the-name on Monday May 24, 2021 @11:22AM (#27265421)
It takes zero practice or effort on an iPhone. You don't even have to hold the phone particularly still.

Like, you're literally describing all the extra effort and gear you have to have to do this on your camera. Wouldn't it be better if you just... didn't need any of that?

Re:How Japanese technology shaped dance music by Kye on Monday May 24, 2021 @11:51AM (#27265807)
You seem to be under the impression the only thing people care about with "big cameras" is image quality. Yes, it would be great if I could do everything with an iPhone, but until it has the same ecosystem of add-ons and tools, it just isn't going to work. I've only mentioned image quality because that was the focus of the thread, but that isn't everything.

I've seen some of the absurd lengths people go attaching things to their iPhones just to reach parity with an entry-level DSLR and a few attachments that cost less than the iPhone rig with the cost of the camera included. I looked into the lenses on the 12. The longest is a 35mm equivalent of 85mm. I would need a grip add-on and a lens clip with no image stabilization just to approach the stability and reach of my 70-300mm lens on an APS-C sensor. That's just for wildlife photography, and not even the longest lens. Most serious wildlife photographers go for a full frame and 600+mm primes. And that's just one use case served by the photography platform that "big cameras" are.

You don't know what you don't know and it shows.

Re:How Japanese technology shaped dance music by user-the-name on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @04:14AM (#27274255)
You seem to be thinking that I am arguing that you should use an iPhone instead of a DSLR. Not sure where you are getting this idea from.

The argument is that DSLR software is lagging far behind what an iPhone can do. The point is that DSLR software needs to improve, not that you should use an iPhone.

Re:How Japanese technology shaped dance music by Kye on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @07:10AM (#27275391)
Again: it doesn't matter how much the on-board software improves. It will always lag behind desktop software that's not power constrained. I have the screen on maybe 30 seconds for every 200 photos for checking exposure and using the very well-designed settings screen. Why would I want to use battery draining software that will never match what I can do once I offload photos to a real computer?
Re:How Japanese technology shaped dance music by user-the-name on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @09:00AM (#27276245)
Because, again, the kinds of feature I talk about can not be done in software on your desktop. They need to run in realtime on the camera, interacting with its image sensor and other sensors.
Re:How Japanese technology shaped dance music by numpad0 on Monday May 24, 2021 @12:25PM (#27266296)
Worth 1k words: Electronic video stabilization on Foxconn/Sharp Aquos R6 smartphone[1]

1: https://twitter.com/sm_hn/status/1394210048318971908

Re:How Japanese technology shaped dance music by numpad0 on Monday May 24, 2021 @12:22PM (#27266241)
Maybe on an oldies like Nikon F6 with 35mm but not like D6 with 85mm, worst case the twitch from clicky shutter button on low end mirrorless are enough to shake resulting picture, you just don't notice at low(in relative terms) resolution
Re:How Japanese technology shaped dance music by brokenmachine on Sunday May 23, 2021 @09:35PM (#27260320)
Meh. It's just lipstick on the pig of a tiny lens.
Re:How Japanese technology shaped dance music by user-the-name on Monday May 24, 2021 @04:20AM (#27262119)
It is far more than that. It is getting amazing results out of that tiny lens.

Why would you not want the same to be applied to a bigger lens?

Re:How Japanese technology shaped dance music by brokenmachine on Monday May 24, 2021 @05:37AM (#27262502)
What's so great about what the iphone camera does specifically?
Re:How Japanese technology shaped dance music by mceachen on Wednesday May 26, 2021 @12:11PM (#27292350)
Take a RAW image with your phone, take a JPEG of the same scene, and then compare.

If the scene is challenging at all, the JPEG may look fine, but the RAW will look like it came out of a 1990s webcam. No dynamic range. Fuzzy focus. Harsh/blown out highlights and muddy shadows.

There is astounding computational sorcery that smartphones use to make that tiny dot of a lens and sensor produce acceptable photos and videos.

Re:How Japanese technology shaped dance music by user-the-name on Monday May 24, 2021 @11:02AM (#27265177)
The night mode especially is beyond anything seen in a full-size camera. It can take fairly sharp three-second exposures free-handed.
Re:How Japanese technology shaped dance music by brokenmachine on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @02:06AM (#27273305)
OK, but it's worth noting that a full-size camera wouldn't need to take a three-second exposure though.

I would like to see a full-size camera with some extra smarts though.

Re:How Japanese technology shaped dance music by user-the-name on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @04:13AM (#27274240)
It would, in the middle of the night. The lens on an iPhone is not slow compared to your average lens.
Re:How Japanese technology shaped dance music by Kye on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @07:09AM (#27275380)
The lens doesn't matter nearly as much as the sensor. A wider aperture on something that collects 1/10 the light isn't going to match a DSLR. Even the slow 3.5 maximum lenses that come with most DSLRs will beat the 1.8 on an iPhone just because the sensor is 10x bigger.
Re:How Japanese technology shaped dance music by user-the-name on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @07:29AM (#27275527)
None of that matters to the basic argument that DSLR software is primitive, and could be lots better, as the iPhone shows, by producing impressive results with vastly inferior hardware.
Re:How Japanese technology shaped dance music by Kye on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @07:59AM (#27275767)
I think you imagine a usage for DSLRs that's vastly different from reality. I could and often do fill an SD card without ever interacting with the software on the camera. This will continue to be the case unless something major changes to flip the balance between what's possible on a tiny battery and what's possible with 6 cores, a wide range of software that can do anything the iPhone does, and an essentially limitless supply of power.

Even the stuff on there already uses too much power. Nikon's SnapBridge uses BLE and still cuts how many photos I get on a charge by 90%. That's without spending any time doing anything in the camera's software. I turned it off so I didn't have to charge the battery after going out for a walk with the camera. And you think I want to do more on that battery?

Re:How Japanese technology shaped dance music by user-the-name on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @08:58AM (#27276233)
You do not "interact" with the software on the iPhone either to use this feature.
Re:How Japanese technology shaped dance music by esyir on Monday May 24, 2021 @12:08AM (#27261019)
Until said tiny lenses start demolishing the market is the bigger lenses. Thus the death of the low end and mid end cameras.
Re:How Japanese technology shaped dance music by Kye on Monday May 24, 2021 @09:02AM (#27263842)
It's not really about the lens. Phones already have solid quality lenses. The sensor is what matters. Nothing you can do with the product of a small sensor will beat the worst you get from even an APS-C sensor. ML can make guesses about what the tiny sensor can't capture. A big sensor just captures it.
Re:How Japanese technology shaped dance music by numpad0 on Sunday May 23, 2021 @11:17AM (#27255554)
Did you know: lots of mirrorless cameras already runs Linux anyway.
Re:How Japanese technology shaped dance music by Kye on Sunday May 23, 2021 @01:26PM (#27256779)
Can you expand on this a bit? Your point isn't clear.
Re:How Japanese technology shaped dance music by goatinaboat on Sunday May 23, 2021 @07:09AM (#27254150)
Same thing in cameras, Nikon, Canon, Pentax, Sony built amazing camera yet the camera software is basically stuck in the 90s

Traditionally in Japan, you would, for example, simply print straight from the camera to the printer. You can see all the support for this if you look in your camera's settings. Putting a PC in the middle is more of a Western style of working. The PC software is bad because the people who write it don't use it themselves and don't really see why anyone would want to, when they could simply skip that step altogether.

Re:How Japanese technology shaped dance music by hfkfmtkrkf on Sunday May 23, 2021 @07:13AM (#27254167)
By camera software I actually meant the stuff running on the actual camera (firmware if you wish).

Where is my upload to Instagram feature for example? Why didn't they add this if they want to avoid needing a PC?

Re:How Japanese technology shaped dance music by martial_cc on Sunday May 23, 2021 @10:09AM (#27255100)
What about Korg software?

While I'm not sure what country they develop their software in, the company is Japanese.

Re:How Japanese technology shaped dance music by musicale on Sunday May 23, 2021 @10:11PM (#27260488)
^ KORG's software is fantastic. Killer apps for the iPad as far as I'm concerned. Gadget is one of my favorite DAWs.
Re:How Japanese technology shaped dance music by musicale on Sunday May 23, 2021 @09:59PM (#27260433)
> No notable audio production software or soft synth plugins is Japanese, which is weird, considering that many of their synths are digital in nature

Have you tried KORG Gadget? It's incredible and a solid DAW/virtual studio in its own right. Basically a killer app for the iPad, and it's also available for macOS.

All of KORG's music apps are fantastic, and basically reason enough to buy an iPad: Gadget, Module, ODYSSEi, iWavestation, iPolySix, iMS-20, iMono/Poly, iElectribe (and its Wave and Gorillaz variants), iKaossilator and iM1.

In addition to PC/Mac/iOS, KORG also has even ported several of its music apps to the Nintendo Switch and 3DS/DS. Definitely fun to make music on a gaming handheld.

KORG is one of my favorite music software/virtual instrument/plugin developers, hands down. And they've been on fire in terms of hardware synths over the past few years as well, both with new/affordable analog as well as classic reissues.

Re:How Japanese technology shaped dance music by agumonkey on Sunday May 23, 2021 @10:05AM (#27255077)
> While the Japanese are amazing at hardware

You're listing hardware companies though, we'd have to look at Japanese software companies to see. Now I agree Sony and others struggled to absorb software and considering they were very high grade hardware device manufacturers the delta was damning. It's a different approach I guess

Re:How Japanese technology shaped dance music by scarecrowbob on Sunday May 23, 2021 @12:51PM (#27256491)
Well, I personally got a whole lot of production work done in the 00s with Sony Vegas... so there's at least one counter example.
Re:How Japanese technology shaped dance music by musicale on Sunday May 23, 2021 @10:15PM (#27260507)
I think Sony also published ACID Pro for a while.
Re:How Japanese technology shaped dance music by nunja on Sunday May 23, 2021 @12:50PM (#27256483)
They produce world class video games though.
Re:How Japanese technology shaped dance music by cronix on Sunday May 23, 2021 @01:39PM (#27256888)
Same in the 3D world, and video production. I can't think of 1 Japanese software product.