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Re:Apple Music Announces Spatial Audio and Lossless Audio by objclxt on Monday May 17, 2021 @10:10AM (#27183600)
> They’re actually pretty great, lossless

CDs aren't lossless unless the material was recorded at or below 16 bit/44.1kHz.

You can argue whether the difference is perceptible - some blind studies suggest not - but this fact is what led to a variety of semi-obscure audiophile disc formats that offered higher sampling rates (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Audio_CD).

Re:Apple Music Announces Spatial Audio and Lossless Audio by dsr_ on Monday May 17, 2021 @10:47AM (#27184050)
That's not a definition of lossless that anyone else uses.

The definition of lossless is that either no compression algorithm was used or the compression algorithm is capable of precisely recreating the original bits in as bits out. If you feed a lossless mechanism an 8 bit 3.5KHz mono bitstream, it must reproduce the same 8 bit 3.5Khz mono bitstream at the other end. Quality out equals quality in.

In your definition, no sound is ever lossless because no microphones can ever capture the complete audio experience available from a live performance - if you move your head a quarter of a wavelength, the sound will change.

That's why we don't use that definition.

Re:Apple Music Announces Spatial Audio and Lossless Audio by tobyhinloopen on Monday May 17, 2021 @10:34AM (#27183900)
Ok, when people talk about _lossless_ streaming, they usually want their stream to match CD quality.

Also, I’m aware SACDs exists. I actually have an amp that can decode DSD encoded audio but I failed to hear a difference.

Re:Apple Music Announces Spatial Audio and Lossless Audio by numpad0 on Monday May 17, 2021 @12:17PM (#27185177)
OT but since there are tons of professionals and audiophiles here - do anyone notice what can only be called CD artifact? There seems to be something "wrong" with CD that no other formats has, digital or analog.
Re:Apple Music Announces Spatial Audio and Lossless Audio by marcan_42 on Monday May 17, 2021 @08:57PM (#27190189)
There is no such thing as a CD artifact for a CD in good condition. You can burn a 44.1/16 WAV to CD, rip it, and get the same exact file out. I do, all the time (I burn indie CDs and this is how I verify them).
Re:Apple Music Announces Spatial Audio and Lossless Audio by astrange on Monday May 17, 2021 @05:21PM (#27188604)
Bits are bits. Maybe your CD player is scratched.
Re:Apple Music Announces Spatial Audio and Lossless Audio by nitrogen on Monday May 17, 2021 @05:29PM (#27188673)
If the original has a SNR less than 96dB (120dB effectively with shaped dithering), and no frequencies above 20kHz, then CD is lossless.
Re:Apple Music Announces Spatial Audio and Lossless Audio by threeseed on Monday May 17, 2021 @07:49PM (#27189774)
30% of people tested could hear 26Khz. 10% could hear 28Khz.

https://asa.scitation.org/doi/10.1121/1.2761883

Re:Apple Music Announces Spatial Audio and Lossless Audio by marcan_42 on Monday May 17, 2021 @08:55PM (#27190180)
A pure tone. At 110 dB SPL. On one study.

Yes, if you blast humans with enough energy in any form they will eventually notice. This is not a relevant result for music.

Re:Apple Music Announces Spatial Audio and Lossless Audio by simondotau on Monday May 17, 2021 @10:52PM (#27190786)
Wow, 26Khz at 110 dBSPL? That's just stupid. You might as well argue that incidental exposure to wifi is certainly fatal because you wouldn't survive being cooked inside a microwave.

110 dBSPL represents thousands of times more energy (in watts) than you could plausibly expect in any musically derived ultrasonic content played at a volume level which doesn't pose a significant risk of permanent hearing loss. At such insane power levels, obviously nobody will be hearing the actual frequency but rather sub-harmonics and/or other physical sensations derived from that moronic level of sound pressure.

Re:Apple Music Announces Spatial Audio and Lossless Audio by threeseed on Monday May 17, 2021 @09:05PM (#27190234)
By all means provide an alternate study that shows 20Khz is the limit for human hearing.

Because from all accounts it is a myth.

Re:Apple Music Announces Spatial Audio and Lossless Audio by Dylan16807 on Monday May 17, 2021 @09:39PM (#27190420)
If they can only hear it way above the threshold of physical damage, that's a good anecdote but it's definitely not relevant to music playback.

Sensitivity to audio falls off a cliff as you approach 20KHz.

Re:Apple Music Announces Spatial Audio and Lossless Audio by simondotau on Monday May 17, 2021 @10:53PM (#27190797)
And that assumes you have young ears. If you're older, chances are it's nowhere near 20kHz.
Re:Apple Music Announces Spatial Audio and Lossless Audio by marcan_42 on Monday May 17, 2021 @11:00PM (#27190823)
At normal listening levels, yup. I'm 30 and I can certainly hear the hideous 19 kHz anti-rat blasters they have all over shops in Tokyo (and I think they almost certainly cause ear damage and should be illegal - IIRC they are marketed as putting out 138dB SPL!) but I am rather unlikely to hear the difference between music low-passed at 19kHz and 20kHz.
Re:Apple Music Announces Spatial Audio and Lossless Audio by simondotau on Monday May 17, 2021 @11:14PM (#27190908)
> I am rather unlikely to hear the difference

Especially if your hearing has been damaged by repeat exposure to 19 kHz at 138dB SPL.

Re:Apple Music Announces Spatial Audio and Lossless Audio by marcan_42 on Tuesday May 18, 2021 @01:14AM (#27191464)
I do try to run away or cover my ears when I run into them...
Re:Apple Music Announces Spatial Audio and Lossless Audio by simondotau on Monday May 17, 2021 @10:53PM (#27190793)
> from all accounts

From all accounts? Don't you mean from one account?