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Re:Apple employees petition demanding investigation into ‘mi... by Udik on Wednesday May 12, 2021 @06:05PM (#27135719)
This is a wider excerpt:

"When she was in her teens, her father decided to move the family to the United States, where they suffered a financial reversal she was unwilling to talk about. Suddenly not among the moneyed class, she hustled herself through the redbrick boondocks of the University of Vermont. Citibank internship led to a Deutsche Bank job, and after a few years she was an equity derivatives trader at Deutsche, holding her own against the toff sharks of the City of London.

She had wild green eyes, with unnatural red spots in her irises when you pulled close, reminiscent of that Afghan girl from the National Geographic cover. Her personality was flinty and rough, and as leathery as her skin. She had spent years between various jobs backpacking around the rougher parts of the world. She was an imposing, broad-shouldered presence, six feet tall in bare feet, and towering over me in heels.

Most women in the Bay Area are soft and weak, cosseted and naive despite their claims of worldliness, and generally full of shit. They have their self-regarding entitlement feminism, and ceaselessly vaunt their independence, but the reality is, come the epidemic plague or foreign invasion, they’d become precisely the sort of useless baggage you’d trade for a box of shotgun shells or a jerry can of diesel.

British Trader, on the other hand, was the sort of woman who would end up a useful ally in that postapocalypse, doing whatever work- be it carpentry, animal husbandry, or a shotgun blast in someone's back- required doing. Long story short, you wanted to tie your genetic wagon to the backing horse of her bloodline. Which is why I was less nervous than I should have been on a random Saturday in July..."

So it's a passage in a (novel? Definitely a literary piece anyway) where, in order to better sing the praise of one particular woman, she is compared to another common type in the same environment. All clearly point of view of a narrator (who might or might not be the author). If these are the parameters, we should throw in the bin almost all literature, from men and women alike.

Re:Apple employees petition demanding investigation into ‘mi... by Wowfunhappy on Wednesday May 12, 2021 @10:18PM (#27137702)
I actually agree that in context, the passage is every-so-slightly better. But it's still an extremely offensive thing to say! If you were a woman in the bay area, and the man responsible for your performance reviews had written that "most women in the bay area" are "useless baggage you'd trade for a box of shotgun shells", would you expect to get a fair evaluation?

There are other situations—Teen Vogue, for instance—where I think the world greatly overreacts, but this doesn't strike me as one of those cases.

Re:Apple employees petition demanding investigation into ‘mi... by MyHypatia on Wednesday May 12, 2021 @06:15PM (#27135811)
He did not write a fiction novel. He wrote a book about his time working on ads at Facebook. He has now been hired to work on ads at Apple. Pointing this out is not "throwing away all literature".
Re:Apple employees petition demanding investigation into ‘mi... by blast on Thursday May 13, 2021 @12:22AM (#27138382)
That's not exactly accurate, because his book was obviously modeled on the 'gonzo' journalism of Hunter S. Thompson, Lester Bangs, and that sort of writer from the 70s. Those writers mixed fiction and fictional devices into their "nonfiction", consciously pushing every edge they could, with the intention of shocking the squares and thrilling the hip. To anyone familiar with that genre, it's clear that such passages are satirical excess, not meant to be taken literally, or at least mostly not, but with enough ambiguity left over to be dangerous.

What's interesting in this episode is how the culture has shifted. The exact same style that once delighted the counterculture, which at the time was what progressives all identified with, is now a transgression that gets you banned from progressive circles, which have since become elite circles culturally, with growing political power as well. All of this is a tectonic cultural shift, and it's fascinating!

There's a very interesting intermediate case at the midpoint between Hunter S. Thompson and this guy: that is the similarly gonzo The eXile which was produced by Mark Ames and Matt Taibbi during their time in Russia in the 90s. The worst passages from that publication—which were far more misogynistic than anything this guy wrote—were dredged up a few years ago, with the intention of denouncing the authors as part of MeToo. In the end, nothing much came of it, partly because one of the women being written about came forward to say that those passages were satirical and that she had always been treated well by the authors. But I think the more important difference between that case and this is that the culture has shifted significantly in the intervening 3 or 4 years. If this incident were happening now, I bet the outcome would be different. The very same gunpowder that made counterculture heroes of Thompson and his ilk, and which the eXile guys got away with by a hair, now blows up in your face, and at much smaller doses too.

Re:Apple employees petition demanding investigation into ‘mi... by ABeeSea on Thursday May 13, 2021 @06:48AM (#27140676)
I damn sure wouldn’t want Hunter S Thompson to be my manager.
Re:Apple employees petition demanding investigation into ‘mi... by jessaustin on Friday May 14, 2021 @05:45PM (#27160045)
Taibbi had something to say about this situation.

https://taibbi.substack.com/p/on-the-hypocrites-at-apple-who...

Re:Apple employees petition demanding investigation into ‘mi... by tomnipotent on Wednesday May 12, 2021 @06:18PM (#27135847)
> So it's a passage in a (novel? Definitely a literary piece anyway)

It's not fiction. It's an autobiography. These are his personal opinions and feelings.

Re:Apple employees petition demanding investigation into ‘mi... by rasputnik6502 on Wednesday May 12, 2021 @06:26PM (#27135914)
Since when personal feelings and opinions should be prosecuted? And who is so entitled to give themselves such right?
Re:Apple employees petition demanding investigation into ‘mi... by tomnipotent on Wednesday May 12, 2021 @06:28PM (#27135932)
Yes. We're allowed to judge people for the things they do and so, and decide we don't want to work with them. He's allowed his, and we're allowed ours. Many people are not interested with working with people that hold these world views, not when they have influence over the career progression of others.
Re:Apple employees petition demanding investigation into ‘mi... by rasputnik6502 on Wednesday May 12, 2021 @06:35PM (#27135995)
Well I'm not interested in working with people who feel entitled to targeting someone and mobbing to destroy them based on opinions and personal beliefs. This is illegal activity imho
Re:Apple employees petition demanding investigation into ‘mi... by Udik on Wednesday May 12, 2021 @06:30PM (#27135948)
The question is not whether it's allowed or not, it is. The question is whether it's stupid or not, and I think it is, terribly so.
[dead]
Re:Apple employees petition demanding investigation into ‘mi... by chubbyish on Wednesday May 12, 2021 @08:00PM (#27136713)
> thinks them inferior

To who? Eastern European woman. How is this sexist?

> known misogynist

Men find women physically attractive.

I would be interested to know what films, books, comedians you actually find permissible for yourself to enjoy.

If you take offense to what is written here, I really don’t see how most of the media available today can be suitable. Do you ever ask yourself if you are being consistent in your standards?

Re:Apple employees petition demanding investigation into ‘mi... by tomnipotent on Thursday May 13, 2021 @03:36AM (#27139414)
I don't have to work for those directors, authors, or comedians. And if Joss Whedon is any indication, a lot of other people don't want to either but have toxic people like this forced upon them by powers-that-be.
Re:Apple employees petition demanding investigation into ‘mi... by rasputnik6502 on Wednesday May 12, 2021 @06:47PM (#27136090)
Nobody forces them to work, and 'known mysogynist' is just a personal attack without merit. What actions did he take against women in general or any woman in particular to be called a misogynist? Remember, if it's only your personal belief, if you dislike the book and the author of it you're free to look for another workplace. But not free to take actions against someone just because you don't like them.
Re:Apple employees petition demanding investigation into ‘mi... by tomnipotent on Thursday May 13, 2021 @03:35AM (#27139404)
> Nobody forces them to work

Right, because women are all still all housewives and don't need to worry about bills or having jobs and the bosses they might have.

> What actions did he take against

How have you missed the whole "wrote book expressing lots of misogyny" bit?

Re:Apple employees petition demanding investigation into ‘mi... by Udik on Wednesday May 12, 2021 @07:00PM (#27136224)
> women should be forced to work under a known misogynist

How do you know he's a misogynist? You read a small, absolutely marginal excerpt from a book that is clearly written in a literary style. In it, he draws a comparison between a particular woman, who is praised for her talent and resourcefulness, and "most Bay Area women", who are definitely not all women, in the Bay Area and much less in general. "Most Americans" is not a judgement on human beings, "most American men" is not a judgement on all men, so why should "most Bay Area women" be a judgement on all women? And this is even assuming that that remark corresponds to some deep conviction, which is a silly assumption given the style and the context.

Re:Apple employees petition demanding investigation into ‘mi... by tomnipotent on Wednesday May 12, 2021 @07:30PM (#27136502)
Did you consider that I've read the book?

Here's my favorite review from Goodreads 2016:

"Pretentious, pseudo-intellectual misogynist pontificates about his theories on tech business, society, and capitalism while sneering at every other human with Olympian contempt and making unacceptable sexist comments about women for about 500 pages."

Re:Apple employees petition demanding investigation into ‘mi... by pseudalopex on Wednesday May 12, 2021 @11:15PM (#27138022)
Since when was he prosecuted?