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Re:Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of m... by NiekvdMaas on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @05:05AM (#27115880)
Looking at the the commit activity of some maintainers, that seems to be correct:

7 commits in a year: https://github.com/babel/babel/commits?author=hzoo&since=202...

$110k invoiced: https://opencollective.com/left_pad/transactions

Re:Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of m... by ianbanks on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @06:18AM (#27116303)
These are the commits of another of the paid contributors, for that same time period:

https://github.com/babel/babel/commits?author=nicolo-ribaudo...

Looking at https://github.com/babel/babel/graphs/contributors, github.com/nicolo-ribaudo has been, for about the last year, the most active contributor on Github, but as recently as March 2021 was only being allocated $24,000 (annualised) from the collective.

Another interesting thing I found digging around is that the creator of Babel (https://twitter.com/sebmck) is relegated to the very bottom of:

https://babeljs.io/team

With a link to some odd throw-away Github account: https://github.com/kittens (edit: the link is fixed now, github.com/nicolo-ribaudo merged my PR almost immediately)

Re:Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of m... by mellosouls on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @08:06AM (#27117066)
Depends entirely on their contract and what is expected of them. Coding is just one possible duty of a lead in this sort of project - the article itself talks about him undertaking various fundraising duties - thats in addition to whatever time period (eg. retrospective) the money is supposed to cover.

Having said that, the salary looks excessive and the commit history isn't a good look without clarification.

But assumptions aren't always the best guide to what is actually going on.

Re:Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of m... by KptMarchewa on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @10:29AM (#27118509)
>the article itself talks about him undertaking various fundraising duties - thats in addition to whatever time period (eg. retrospective) the money is supposed to cover.

So, he fundraised money to have time to further fundraise, and he did it so well that they have to decrease his salary?

Sounds like he did not do so great job here either.

Re:Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of m... by altendo on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @11:09AM (#27118993)
> Sounds like he did not do so great job here either.

The original article notes that funding took a hit in 2020. 2020 was an unprecedented year for any number of reasons. To simply say someone did a poor job fundraising in a year beset by constant challenges everywhere lacks proper context.

That's not to say more could have been done; I don't feel, however, that I'm in a position to say. Making money on open source is a difficult enough prospect regardless how one does it without also considering other factors that increase that difficulty.

Re:Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of m... by mkipper on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @10:44AM (#27118677)
I know almost nothing about this situation, but if I was hired to raise money and did a bad job, I'd expect to be fired. I wouldn't expect to have a blog post written about me.
Re:Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of m... by dingaling on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @09:01AM (#27117535)
Back when I was a senior programmer I would probably have had as few credited code changes as that.

But what you wouldn't see are the hundreds of problems I debugged and analysed for other programmers , down to the level of "make this change on line 530".

Re:Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of m... by yonaguska on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @10:12AM (#27118318)
The most productive team lead I worked with didn't do a lot of story work. He was constantly checking in on everyone else to ensure that no individual contributed was blocked on anything. A problem that would have taken me 3 hrs to figure out, was solved during pairing in 15 minutes.

So thanks for being that guy for a lot of other devs that learned from you.

Re:Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of m... by tommoor on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @10:39AM (#27118628)
This is an open source project, if those discussions were happening they'd still be largely visible as contributions on github.
Re:Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of m... by woah on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @01:18PM (#27120731)
Why? Maybe they talked on video chat or a screenshare, or a messenger like slack. Forcing people to use a possibly less efficient communication method just to have a hard record of their contributions seems like the hallmark of an extremely dysfunctional and distrustful development organization.
Re:Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of m... by merb on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @05:17PM (#27123637)
open source projects that want public funding should do stuff like that in the open. and record it.
Re:Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of m... by cjaybo on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @01:24PM (#27120812)
You say this definitively, as if every OSS project uses GitHub exclusively for all communication. This is obviously not the case.
Re:Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of m... by prepend on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @05:21PM (#27123682)
They’d use something visible or their process is borked and not transparent and not welcoming to new users.

It doesn’t matter if it’s a listserv, or an IRC channel, or a GitHub issue. But it does matter if the collaborations are invisible to the team and to others on the project.

It’s their project so they are welcome to organize as they wish, but for a healthy open source project, I think having some collaboration method where newcomers can understand all the meaningful and helpful discussions is a good thing.

If a super awesome person is doing 1:1 calls/DMs/Emails all the time, that’s going to be tough to maintain. Not to mention a pain for any work where it’s multiple people collaborating and coordinating a changes that impact each other.

Re:Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of m... by deckard1 on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @03:44PM (#27122591)
irony really is dead. The creator of git still uses the Linux Kernel Mailing List. Though I can certainly think of a dozen other ways to communicate that aren't GitHub or Slack.
Re:Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of m... by Aeolun on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @01:20PM (#27120740)
Potentially. But not in a team of 4.
Re:Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of m... by gnomewascool on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @05:23AM (#27115959)
Are FOSS "donations" for on-going or past work, though? I'd lean towards a mixture of both.

However, by that measure the original creator should also be compensated for their past work, given that they wrote about an order of magnitude more code than the second most prolific contributor, at least in the main babel repository.[0]

(I have no way to easily measure other equally important contributions, such as shepherding other contributors, dealing with issues and PRs, so I'm ignoring them.)

[0] https://github.com/babel/babel/graphs/contributors

Re:Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of m... by lhnz on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @06:08AM (#27116240)

  > I'm just going to be explicit. In 2020, Henry created 12
  > issues, commented 25 times, and created 29 pull requests.
  > This is across all Babel orgs.
  >
  > https://twitter.com/sebmck/status/1392053448892469250
There has been a lot of innovation within the tooling ecosytem over the last year (esbuild, vite, snowpack, bundless, swc, whatever Jarred Sumner is working on). None of this innovation is coming from Babel.

It seems like a gravy train. Open-source contributors of other projects are currently carrying the torch of uncompensated work.

If they want to get paid, they need to think about how they currently fit into the ecosystem.

Re:Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of m... by metaphor on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @06:31AM (#27116361)
I admittedly fail to see how that Twitter remark survives a naive sanity check[1]. What am I missing here?

[1] https://github.com/hzoo

Re:Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of m... by sebastianmck on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @06:40AM (#27116414)
I explicitly state 2020. Activity picked up in March. Use GitHub search filters and it’s more apparent.

Activity graphs can be deceiving, it’s extremely easy to look busy. Actually drill down and you’ll notice a lot of the activity earlier in this year was just pull request approvals, without comment, mostly done after someone else had already approved.

Re:Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of m... by ratww on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @06:04AM (#27116218)
> dealing with issues and PRs

According to the original tweets by @sebmck there were only 25 comments in PRs by said contributor in the last year, so even that didn't happen, apparently.

Re:Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of m... by szatkus on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @07:11AM (#27116598)
Interesting that his contributions apparently declined when he went full-time.
Re:Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of m... by barbazoo on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @09:15AM (#27117674)
I would expect an outrage here if someone suggested evaluating someone's work performance based on the number of commits the same way we consistently criticize evaluation based on number of lines of code or hours spent in the office.
Re:Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of m... by morelisp on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @01:42PM (#27121063)
Still, it's difficult to do even 'soft' work on a GitHub project without producing some kind of trail.

Few commits? Well, OK, lots of reviews and PR handling.

Not too much of that either? Ah, issue triage!

Oh, not that either. Well, they're the most senior dev. Strong technical direction and forward-thinking research! Maybe mailing lists instead of the issue tracker or wiki.

... but Babel's usefulness is at an all-time low as browsers adopt new features regularly, core-js now handles all the polyfills, and non-Babel transpilers and non-JS languages add all the interesting features and performance improvements?

Well, obviously advertising the project, helping with fundraising... for what's majority their own salary... Hrm. Mitchell Baker, is that you?

Re:Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of m... by cloudmu on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @03:25PM (#27122362)
That's the wrong way to look at it. He has a lot more contributions, including code reviews of pull requests. https://github.com/hzoo?tab=overview Not to mention other behind the scene tasks such as fund-raising, etc.
Re:Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of m... by nickthemagicman on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @05:46AM (#27116103)
Re:Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of m... by pas on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @06:05AM (#27116225)
That doesn't seem to mean much nowadays. (Or maybe ever.) It's an old popular complex project, there are a lot of ongoing discussions. For example the TypeScript repo has 5K issues. And it's a flagship MS project, so it's not about funding, quality, etc.
Re:Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of m... by nickthemagicman on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @06:52AM (#27116482)
Good point. Can't argue with that.

That's the problem with software, it's hard to measure productivity.