> People have real distrust of the system that produced the vaccine and even distrust of the media that purports this disease is so deadly.

WHY??? Why do they distrust the vaccine?? Anything? Any possible reason? It's probably the safest vaccine ever made. I. DON'T. GET. IT.

Do others not hear the ambulances? Do they not see the overflow from the hospitals? Are the dead bodies some sort of elaborate deep fake?? Has the whole world gone mad???

Brother, I love skepticism. It's healthy. It's *good*. I don't blindly trust corporations or the government, as far as I'm concerned the former only wants profit and the latter only wants power.

But that's got nothing to do with it, from my perspective.

When your house is on fire you don't debate the motivations of the fire department. You put out the fire first, and THEN have time for dithering and analysis.

> WHY??? Why do they distrust the vaccine?? Anything? Any possible reason? It's probably the safest vaccine ever made. I. DON'T. GET. IT.

I'm getting my 2nd shot this week, but both mRNA and modified adenovirus vaccines have never been used for mass vaccinations before. The history of medicine is litered with interventions that were seen as totally safe and wonderful and lead to terrible consequences after some time. Push towards massive adoption of an intervention sets off my alarm bells.

All that said, personally, it seems the unknown long term risks of vaccination outweigh the more or less known risks of covid both on an individual level (I don't want to get it) and a community level (I'd rather like community spread to stop, so I can go back to being a hermit by choice); but if community spread wasn't happening near me, I would be happier not trying new medicine within a year of development.

> I'm getting my 2nd shot this week, but both mRNA and modified adenovirus vaccines have never been used for mass vaccinations before. The history of medicine is litered with interventions that were seen as totally safe and wonderful and lead to terrible consequences after some time. Push towards massive adoption of an intervention sets off my alarm bells.

These events sadly happen and there will always be unknown unknowns, not only, but also because of human hubris. However, it seems you are overestimating the prevalence of such events and extrapolating that to the current situation. If you take a birds-eye view on medical progress over the last 50-100 years says, it's just incredible.

> All that said, personally, it seems the unknown long term risks of vaccination outweigh the more or less known risks of covid both on an individual level (I don't want to get it) and a community level (I'd rather like community spread to stop, so I can go back to being a hermit by choice); but if community spread wasn't happening near me, I would be happier not trying new medicine within a year of development.

Agree with you. From what we know today it seems that the unknown long term risks of the vaccines are a subset of the unknown long term risks of Covid.

I know this is an inflammatory topic that evokes visceral feelings but.. you should be aware that when you are trying to change someone's mind, aggressive arguing like this is much more likely to make the other person believe what they already believe more strongly (i.e. the opposite of what you want).

Go to your local hospital and see for yourself how deadly the disease is.

I can't just walk in.

That said I know several people that have had it. Some elderly with existing conditions. Worst case was my aunt who got pneumonia from it. She's in her mid sixties and diabetic. She was in the hospital for a week.

Was in the emergency room with my son a few months back, not overflowing or anything, but I wasn't there to track Covid cases.

In Germany they showed the whole shift of an covid nurse on tv. They really should show something similar in every country. Gives you a lot of perspective.

Do you know what the name of this program is? I'd be interested to see if I could find it online somewhere.

Pflege ist #NichtSelbstverständlich | Joko und Klaas

Edit: It's available on a german video on demand service maybe a vpn will work for you https://www.prosieben.de/tv/joko-klaas-gegen-prosieben/video...

my coworker's parents caught it. they were in their 50s. the mom became severely ill and was hospitalized for weeks. the dad died. my coworker himself got it and was mostly fine.

it's really hard to intuit how wildly variable this disease is when you only have a couple personal data points and distrust/feel detached from the statistics being reported, but it's real.

Going only off personal experience can really skew your perceptions. If I'd've been living away from home at the time, and thus avoided catching it, it would've completely changed the colour of our experiences:

* Mother, 50s - metallic taste for two weeks, loss of appetite, some fatigue * Father, 50s - sore throat for a week * Sister, ~20 / Grandmother, ~80 - both had similar symptoms of fatigue, body aches, sore throat, feeling hot/cold, some change to taste * Grandfather, ~85, multiple pre-existing conditions (COPD, heart failure, prediabetes, history of TIAs) - only reason we knew he had it was due to a positive test

Going off those alone, it seems unpleasant but not too dire. Then you add me in:

* Me, 30 - same symptoms as sister/grandmother for about a week, then ten days in the ICU after my O2 sats dropped to 78 overnight (and remained in the 80s on oxygen). Narrowly avoided ventilation as I responded to CPAP.

Suddenly it seems a lot more serious.

> Was in the emergency room with my son a few months back, not overflowing or anything, but I wasn't there to track Covid cases.

In most (all?) hospitals, Covid cases are separated from general emergency because you don't want your emergency room transformed in a constant cluster.

I think parent's advice is solid. Covid sits at this sweet spot where it's not that bad for young folks, but it's easily transmissible and mortality increases exponentially with age. Which means certain demographics will be hit disproportionally hard.

At the same time only a small fraction, say 10-20%, of the population has had a Covid infection. So while some are hit hard, at the same time it might not affect you and the people around you too much.

Maybe ask your family doctor/general practitioner, or you have a nurse in your network or wider family, or somebody working in a hospital or care home? Also speaking to older folks like parents or grand-parents can be helpful to get another perspective.

Well I've had two family members die from it and another on death's door in the hospital and now is losing her hair months after recovery, so anecdotes can go both ways.

I'm also not claiming anecdotes are what are making up my mind. I was simply responding to the suggestion that I walk into a hospital.

I too believe that anecdotes are poor evidence at best, and I completely believe others have had 180* experiences from myself.