I advocate getting vaccinated (I am myself) but if people don't want to put foreign substances into their bodies, we should respect their choices, especially since the long-term risk profile is unknown (we are pretty sure it's safe, but who can know?)

We can. There have been hundreds of millions of doses administered and we are keeping track of the side effects.

there are some things you can't know without time travel. what happens after having the vaccine for 5 years? 10? The immune system is strange. There are very few mRNA vaccines that have been deployed to date. Can you be sure you aren't, for example, at elevated risk for something like MS? You can't. Again, I say this as someone who made the choice to get the vaccine. The worst thing about conspiracy theories is that some of them are true. If you don't like people being "anti-science", then the one thing you CANNOT do is shove scientifically irresponsible stuff down their throat in the name of expediency.

Cars and certain power plants dump toxic chemicals into the air and occasionally the water supply. Society doesn't give anyone the option to opt out of putting these known toxins in their bodies because we can't. Society either has electricity & cars, thus poisons everyone, or it doesn't. The best we can do is work to mitigate the negative impacts.

We are at the the point where society needs people to receive a vaccine, or it will stop functioning. How much are you willing to personally sacrifice so that someone near you has the option to avoid getting a couple of shots that a billion other people have already received?

Factories can't run at full capacity until people are vaccinated. Our food supplies, specifically meat, are at risk until people are vaccinated. We are going to keep this society of scarcity until ~90% of people are willing to get two shots.

your assumption is that threatening mandatory compliance is better than voluntary compliance. Humans are irrational and sometimes resist doing the right thing when force them to. Surely you have had the experience that being forced to read a book for school has ruined it, or resisted doing something you wanted to do just because your parent made you do it. If instead you work harder to get assent and consent, your vaccination rate might be higher than if you threaten to hammer it in. Especially in a society where voluntary compliance and resistance to authority is in its social DNA, like the united states.

> But their choices affect me, and, more importantly, those I care about. So no, I don't respect anyone's "choice" to be an unvaccinated asshole, increasing the chance that people I care about will die

I only respect those that choose to be unvaccinated if they:

1. have had adverse effects to a previous vaccination (like the Anthrax garbage they injected into military personnel or have allergies to PEG)

I really thought I had more than one

What about people that personally know those military personnel? By that extension, what about those who know of those military personnel? Can we extend the range of people that are allowed to be skeptical to those that know of the many failed medical experiments done on people?

Are we allowed to be skeptical because pfizer and co are making record breaking profits on an emergency authorized vaccine. That, in the USA, can only be authorized if there are no other approved treatments for covid-19.. meanwhile, the rest of the world is using ivermectin, hcq, etc to successfully treat symptoms? Can we be skeptical of the fact that the pharmaceutical companies clearly have some political influence over the medical field, and have been using that to push this vaccine? Am I allowed to be skeptical of something that is being pushed by companies that have all paid millions in fines over other previous actions? Or am I allowed to have issue with the fact that these same pharmaceutical companies have been caught paying social media influencers to promote the vaccine, while social media companies actively ban people for expressing doubt?

How about expectant mothers and women planning on having kids? There have been reports that menstruation cycles of women and women that have been in close proximity to people recently vaccinated have been adversely affected.

> But their choices affect me

If you and your family get vaccinated, how do their choices affect you?

As far as I know, I haven't had COVID, but other people having it has certainly ruined my year and everyone else's regardless. There's a lot more at stake than just your personal health.

Agreed, but what do you propose? We will never have 100% of people get the vaccine due to either personal choice or medical conditions.

Right now, there is no cost to not being vaccinated, but it does cause damage to society. Its an economic externality. So we should do same thing we do with any other externalities such as pollution: you legislate to bring cost in line with the damage being imposed on others.

I don't think this should mean jail time, but anything from being barred from public spaces like schools or government jobs, to tax penalties, should be on the table in my opinion. I'm all for freedom of choice, but I'm against freeloading. No one should have to take the vaccine if they don't want to, but they shouldn't be able to participate in all the benefits of society while refusing to do their part in keeping that society functional.

>> But their choices affect me

>If you and your family get vaccinated, how do their choices affect you?

I was simply answering this.

Vaccines are not 100% effective, some people cannot take the vaccine (known allergic reactions, immunocompromised, ...) and continued spread of the virus can create new mutations.

It isn't 100%, no. But I am not sure what you are suggesting then.

If you get the vaccine and are still scared and angry at people that may not have received it, there aren't many options for you aside from indefinite total lock-down.

Herd immunity. If enough people get vaccinated R0 gets under 1, and the spread stops by itself also protecting those who cannot get the vaccine or are unlucky that the vaccine does not work for them. They are protected by the herd.

What are your thoughts on abortion

Let's recognize your comment for what it is: unhelpful internet toughguy-ism. You need to regain some perspective. Calling others "treasonous" for this pretty clearly violates HN community guidelines.