Also theoretically a standardized mainboard design that will allow you to upgrade the CPU + chipset at some point down the road, but of course this is contingent on Framework following through.

Something like "ATX for laptops" is long overdue IMHO. Specify the exact dimensions of the board, mounting holes, power hookup, location of the CPU (for cooling configuration), video connector spec, even a side panel that fits into a cutout on the case.

You could separate the screen and keyboard purchase from the motherboard purchase. And honestly, I have a lot of old laptops with perfectly usable screens and keyboards that are gathering dust because the CPU is hopelessly obsolete. Had they been built like this I could have significantly cut back on e-waste and saved money on the upgrade. You could even have enterprising people building thin clients or dumb terminals out of them. Having a unified spec would enable a lot of niche products. Imagine a Raspberry Pi board that you stuff the Pi into that has the right hookups for a standard laptop case for example. There would be a whole industry for cheapo SBCs that you can stuff in a used laptop case to make an ultra-cheap web browsing machine.

> And honestly, I have a lot of old laptops with perfectly usable screens and keyboards that are gathering dust because the CPU is hopelessly obsolete.

Yep. I have a ~2008 15.4" Dell laptop with a 1920x1200 screen that's pretty decent even by modern standards and tons of ports that'd be a perfectly serviceable (if a bit bulky) if it could be outfitted with a modern 15-30W TDP CPU to cut down on heat and boost battery life to something more reasonable.

That is right! We're committed to offering upgrade mainboards. We follow CPU roadmaps closely and keep in contact with the companies you would expect to be necessary for that.

Are there really not laptops anymore with SODIMM memory and discrete M.2 ports for both storage and WiFi? That seems like pretty basic features for anything that isn't trying to be ultra-thin and light?

AFAIK no notebook class CPU comes in a socketable form so I don't know how they plan to let the users upgrade it without a heat gun. Being able to swap out the battery is nice I guess. For that they mostly just have to go easy on the glue, in most laptops you can swap the battery as long as the glue isn't too difficult. It's something you might do once in a laptop's lifetime though.

Can you swap the screen? That is one job that will always give you a headache. How about the keyboard? Maybe the power jack for that time you trip over the cable and rip the jack off of the board?

None of this should be all that hard unless you're trying to make the whole thing less than 0.5cm thick.

It's surprisingly, but there are exceedingly few 13-14" notebooks still in the market with socketed memory, and especially not with both channels socketed. The same goes for WiFi, though at least storage is still socketed on most notebooks other than Apple's.

We enable CPU upgradeability through mainboard replacement. Since everything of value on the mainboard except for the CPU is socketed, the vast majority of the cost of the mainboard is the CPU itself. That makes the mainboard upgrade path pretty sensible.

We have designed the panel to be replaceable without needing to replace the full lid assembly. It is fastened in behind a magnet-attach bezel (which is also color customizable). The keyboard is held in with fasteners to be replaceable as well.

For the power jack, we actually do one better, and have made all of the ports Expansion Cards which can be hot swapped. This means you can choose the ports you want on the system and which side you want them on, and if you ever manage to damage a receptacle, you only need to replace the card instead of the mainboard!

I agree that what we're doing shouldn't be that unusual, but it is!

I like to buy repairable and upgradeable laptops as a matter of principle (system76). But realistically I replace my laptop every 2 years anyways for the extra CPU performance. Being able to upgrade just that part without replacing the whole thing sounds perfect for me.

I really hope this is able to take off. As do you I'm sure, heh.

The Dell Precision laptops still have sodimms and M.2 storage, not sure about WiFi.

The idea for upgrading the CPU is that you replace the whole motherboard, but keep everything else.

Yes, the screen is easily swappable. The bezel is held in by magnets and the screen is held in with just four screws. Keyboard is replaceable and quite modular as well as the shell, keys and PCB are separate parts. The power jack is also replaceable. Actually, the whole I/O consist of four modules that you can swap out as desired (and a dedicated headphone jack), so you can decide how many USB-C, USB-A, DP and HDMI ports you want. A dedicated microSD slot is also available.

And no, it doesn’t look hard at all, the whole design is very straight forward. Which makes it all the more surprising why it took this long, but I’m glad someone finally makes it happen.

> Are there really not laptops anymore with SODIMM memory and discrete M.2 ports for both storage and WiFi?

Here is one: https://puri.sm/products/librem-14 (battery is replaceable without involving a glue).

Every socket pin is a hit to reliability. That’s a Mother Nature problem there is no getting around. A soldered joint will always have better reliability than a pin-and-socket joint. The MTBF math is easy.

So the right way to look at this is you are spending MTBF to get MTTR wins and also upgradability. This may or may not be the right choice for every user, and for most manufacturers its a losing proposition.

Personally, I like the upgradability and understand that real-world shock-and-vibe issues may show up and need me to dig out a screwdriver. Not everyone may share those expectations.

And how is that different from my Thinkpad?

The difference is that the Framework laptop is repairable.

https://community.frame.work/t/the-myth-of-the-repairable-th...

Having worked at a computer repair shop, I can say this will be, by a very large margin, the most repairable laptop in the market. Most defects experienced by laptop users (especially the non-Apple gang) will render the PC a total loss.

X1 carbons aren't exactly known for being the most repairable thinkpads.

My new P15 still has a modular gpu and, IIRC, has easy access to most components by removing the back cover.

And Thinkpads are a) pretty unique in how repairable they are, and b) seen by the public as enterprise workhorses and not sexy or exciting.

I personally have an X1C5. I absolutely love it. Best laptop I've ever owned.

But I'm still very curious about this thing as it feels like a whole next level in terms of how modular and easy it is to repair while still being lightweight, powerful, and capable.

I agree that it's an unfair comparison. X1 Carbon (really, the whole X-series) is the line designed to appeal to those that want thinness and weight reduction at all costs. My T- and P-series machines are very repairable.

Really, how recent is your newest one?

The T-series (I’ve owned roughly every other generation since T420) have gotten increasingly less repairable with each release since at least the T430.

I was always a fan/happy user, but after the T480(s) I won’t be buying a new Thinkpad anymore.

The DRM in the batteries, only one RAM slot, the removal of some port in every new generation... Even the non-carbon ones have the writing on the wall.

My T-480 with integrated graphics has two SODIMM sockets. My biggest complaint is there's room in the case for a 2.5" SATA drive, but no way to connect one. Wasn't aware of the battery DRM that's unfortunate.

The t4x0s series used to have two as well, now it’s down to one.

Earlier models of T series did have space and connectors for both M2 and 2.5” drives.

It started off all right, but every release in every series gets incrementally worse in some way.

I’d go for Clevo/system76 if it weren’t for the lack of hi-res screen options.

I’m stoked about Framework.

Thinkpads are pretty repairable, all things considered. Probably not as much as this Framework laptop, but much more than most laptops.

To be honest, nothing. I guess this target audience is more of the "nice looking (looks like a macbook), portable, slim, lightweight, upgradable" target audience. Then the "I already have a upgradable/repairable" laptop audience.

Apparently it's modular, but all desktops are "modular", and a fair amount of laptops are "modular" so it's a fairly meaningless word.

We really did build this in part as a reaction to the historically modular and repairable notebooks becoming decreasingly so. Even the former standard-bearer for upgradeability, the ThinkPad T4xx (now T14) series no longer has two SO-DIMM sockets.

We then took that a few steps further by making the mainboard upgradeable, adding an Expansion Card system for port customization, and enabling personalization through color-customizable bezels and keyboard language selection.

Well for one, you can swap out the port configuration, though I don't see myself using that.

I much prefer connecting one Type C hub than plugging in like six cables to my laptop directly, so I don't really mind laptops with a small amount of I/Os.

Your ThinkPad from 10 years ago or a modern ThinkPad that has soldered on RAM and WiFi chip and an ever-decreasing profile that makes it harder to replace individual components?

> and it's 100% yours (you can do what ever you want to it)

Does it run 100% free software? Will it be certified with "Respects Your Freedom" certification by the FSF?

Funny they say it's 100% yours and the only OS they provide is... Windows! It would be better to at least provide a Linux default image as well.

The Framework Laptop DIY Edition comes with no OS installed, so you can bring your own. We're working with a couple of popular distributions on compatibility checks and updates. The pre-built Framework Laptops do come with Windows 10, though you can install anything you'd like too.

Is this going to happen before the preorders open? I love the concept and if it had anything approaching System76's first-class support of linux that would make a strong offering that much better. I don't mean going so far as to bankroll a whole new distro, "just" things actually working right.

While you're here, are there any new answers to your conversation with Luis Rossmann[1] WRT availability of schematics?

I love what you guys are trying to do and hope you succeed in a big way!

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMZp8ErTTuk

AFAIK it's impossible for any recent x86 system to meet RYF.

So it's not "100% mine".

At least it's possible to run an FSF-certified OS [0], and disable and neutralize the Intel ME [1].

[0] https://puri.sm/posts/why-fsf-endorsing-pureos-matters/

[1] https://www.tomshardware.com/uk/news/purism-disables-intel-m...

Will it be possible on Framework?