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Re:AMD Reports Q1 2021 Earnings by ksec on Wednesday April 28, 2021 @12:29AM (#26965597)
Consumer CPU, APU, Server CPU, Semi-Custom ( Consoles ), are all doing great as expected. What is missing is the GPU big picture. I dont see evidence of AMD discrete GPU winning any market shares and seems to be dominated by Nvidia.

AMD only have two more years to enjoy their advantage from Intel's multiple missteps. After that it is going to be tough. And that is excluding the threat from ARM.

Re:AMD Reports Q1 2021 Earnings by slowwriter on Wednesday April 28, 2021 @03:16AM (#26966648)
I think you’re underestimating the trouble Intel is in. They are being absolutely stomped on by both AMD and Apple in terms of performance/efficiency, and if it wasn’t for such high demand it would reflect heavily on sales. Also, AMD has begun R&D for ARM processors whereas that is nowhere to be found in Intel’s roadmap.
Re:AMD Reports Q1 2021 Earnings by ksec on Wednesday April 28, 2021 @05:26AM (#26967438)
That would have been true if Pat Gelsinger didn't became CEO. Worth pointing out Intel's R&D didn't stopped, all their CPU uArch design were done, only to be let down by their 10nm fiasco. That single misstep caused Intel years of setback. ( My calculation is somewhere around four years, they had 2 years lead at the time, so now they are about 2 years behind )

As some have pointed out, TSMC is the real competitor, not really Apple or AMD. So I was surprised how quickly Pat managed to open up Foundry with industry standard tools and ecosystem. I have been saying this since 2012 even before the original Intel custom foundry were announced. ( And constantly being attacked and abused by Intel Fans online) But to actually see Intel announcing it is a completely different thing. Especially knowing their strong inertia. In hindsight, it probably took that beating from 10nm before they could really go all in with Custom Foundry. ( "All in" as in with industry tools, they are still an IDM, not Pure Play )

And how the tide has turned. All of a sudden Leading Edge Foundry becomes a national security concern. And Intel should rip all the benefits from it.

It was Andy Grove first started moving away from DRAM in the late 1980s, and may be his disciple will be the one who start to move away from x86 as core business.

Re:AMD Reports Q1 2021 Earnings by slowwriter on Wednesday April 28, 2021 @06:53AM (#26967914)
Say Intel does only take two years to turn around x86. They are a big company with lots of resources and talent, so even though in my mind it seems difficult they surely have a chance.

Meanwhile, AMD gets a headstart on ARM and leaves Intel in the dust on that front. I don't see Intel winning one way or another. I think it will take many years for them to potentially come back as no. 1 in the industry.

Re:AMD Reports Q1 2021 Earnings by ksec on Wednesday April 28, 2021 @10:31AM (#26969790)
I didn't say they will lead in two years. But they have a much stronger position going forward and be able to compete. ( Compare to dying in a slow death before Pat came back ) Right now they aren't really "competing", more like holding AMD back. Look at AMD's entrance into Cloud / DC market, they are barely 10% by even the most optimistic standard. If you take out the consoles sales number, the DC market for AMD isn't as rosy as many want people to presume. ( I would have wanted them to be close to 20% by now. Although Mark papermaster have shown their ambition for 30%+. Which is the only good sign I would take.) Also reminder AMD isn't in the forefront of leading edge node, they tend to wait for mainstream. Apple is the one paying premium. ( Although TSMC sudden 5 / 3nm acceleration seems to suggest a change in strategy, we will see )
Re:AMD Reports Q1 2021 Earnings by Hikikomori on Wednesday April 28, 2021 @07:58AM (#26968338)
Jim Keller was in part hired to work on K12 which was an ARM cpu which they were working on at the same time as Zen.
Re:AMD Reports Q1 2021 Earnings by berto4 on Wednesday April 28, 2021 @09:10AM (#26968898)
Clearly you aren't really plugged-in to what's really going on. Intel has had multiple missteps both 10nm and 7nm which are both years late and kept getting pushed back. To say TSMC is the real competitor is really silly, AMD's Zen arch is giving intel all kinds of problems, AMD has a solid roadmap...I really don't wanna rehash
Re:AMD Reports Q1 2021 Earnings by ksec on Wednesday April 28, 2021 @10:32AM (#26969813)
>Clearly you aren't really plugged-in to what's really going on.

Not sure if this is a new comer or new account. You may want to explain yourself. As you have nothing in your previous comment to "rehash".

If the past 10 years are records that I am way more plugged into what's going on than 99.99% of the internet.

And if you dont think TSMC is the competitor, it tells others more about you than about me.

Re:AMD Reports Q1 2021 Earnings by alimbada on Wednesday April 28, 2021 @09:40AM (#26969213)
Intel's Tiles sound like an engineering nightmare. There's no way they're going to compete with AMD with a "roadmap" like the one they've shown so far.
Re:AMD Reports Q1 2021 Earnings by modeless on Wednesday April 28, 2021 @03:31AM (#26966739)
Intel isn't being stomped on by AMD and Apple. The stomper is TSMC (and Samsung to a lesser extent). Without TSMC, M1 and Zen 3 don't exist. (Quite literally in the case of Zen 3, as you still can't buy one!) It's all about the fabs.
Re:AMD Reports Q1 2021 Earnings by lhoff on Wednesday April 28, 2021 @07:26AM (#26968137)
I don't know anything about other regions but Zen3 Desktop CPUs are available in multiple stores in Germany and Europe.
Re:AMD Reports Q1 2021 Earnings by floatboth on Wednesday April 28, 2021 @08:30AM (#26968583)
How expensive is it in Germany? Russian retailers also had a decent supply, but the 5950X cost ~$1050 in the winter, ~$990 now. Which is a little bit more than the usual regional premium but honestly not too bad. GPU prices are much much worse. Over $1200 for a 6700XT – yes the one with a seven. 2.5 times the US MSRP :/
Re:AMD Reports Q1 2021 Earnings by distances on Wednesday April 28, 2021 @10:27AM (#26969738)
Re:AMD Reports Q1 2021 Earnings by piva00 on Wednesday April 28, 2021 @09:11AM (#26968900)
In Sweden the 5950X costs the equivalent to US$ 1060 right now.
Re:AMD Reports Q1 2021 Earnings by zibzab on Wednesday April 28, 2021 @05:33AM (#26967492)
You have been able to but Zen 3 laptops for a good while now. Not sure about desktop CPUs thought.

But that's mostly because of apple reserving TSMC entire 5nm line, so AMD is still on 7nm (although they look extremely promising even on an older node)

Re:AMD Reports Q1 2021 Earnings by kingosticks on Wednesday April 28, 2021 @07:29AM (#26968162)
Apple did reportedly reserve all the initial 5nm capacity but I don't think we can say that's the reason AMD are still on 7nm. The early state of any node better lends itself to lower power, small SoCs. AMD may have been offered some capacity and turned it down because they prefer a more mature process for their larger chips with high-speed IO. Given the shortages now maybe with hindsight they regret that - who knows.
Re:AMD Reports Q1 2021 Earnings by pedrocr on Wednesday April 28, 2021 @06:23AM (#26967760)
Zen 3 laptops haven't even been properly announced and are definitely not shipping. Even the Zen 2 models are in very short supply. Desktop Zen 3 is what is shipping and quantities are very limited as demand is very high.
Re:AMD Reports Q1 2021 Earnings by zibzab on Wednesday April 28, 2021 @07:01AM (#26967958)
You can order Asus Zen3 laptops such as ROG Zephyrus on Amazon today.
Re:AMD Reports Q1 2021 Earnings by pedrocr on Wednesday April 28, 2021 @08:24AM (#26968529)
I stand corrected. Seems like the 35W chips have indeed shipped. I've been waiting for the 15W parts to reach the Lenovo range.The part they'll use was only even announced a month ago. Even within those some of the 5000 generation are Zen 2 parts. Desktop has been out for much longer across the whole range but availability seems quite poor.
Re:AMD Reports Q1 2021 Earnings by alimbada on Wednesday April 28, 2021 @09:43AM (#26969251)
I don't know about where you are, but supply has caught up with demand for Zen 3 in the UK.
Re:AMD Reports Q1 2021 Earnings by slowwriter on Wednesday April 28, 2021 @03:40AM (#26966789)
Good point, Intel’s primary weakness at the moment is definitely that they are failing at progressing their own fabrication process
Re:AMD Reports Q1 2021 Earnings by blackoil on Wednesday April 28, 2021 @03:35AM (#26966764)
Intel runway got extended a lot due to current silicon crisis. There isn't enough o/p for people to completely stop buying the 14nm chips, which Intel can produce with high profitability.
Re:AMD Reports Q1 2021 Earnings by scotty79 on Wednesday April 28, 2021 @05:28AM (#26967456)
But is it the runway for the purposes of taking off or landing in less crashy manner? ;-)
Re:AMD Reports Q1 2021 Earnings by FuriouslyAdrift on Wednesday April 28, 2021 @08:35AM (#26968620)
AMD has made ARM chips before (2016) for servers. https://www.amd.com/en/amd-opteron-a1100

Never seen one in the wild, though.

Re:AMD Reports Q1 2021 Earnings by greenknight on Wednesday April 28, 2021 @03:18AM (#26966656)
Also remember that AMD had Jim Keller back in the day, for an integrated ARM / x86 CPU. They have done a lot of R&D already to date, not something recent!
Re:AMD Reports Q1 2021 Earnings by rubatuga on Wednesday April 28, 2021 @01:56AM (#26966123)
Unfortunately, the software tooling gap between Nvidia and AMD has widened significantly for GPGPUs. AMD has also left the enthusiast video card market in the dust with their lack of ROCM support. Nvidia has some seriously cool tech that they showcased at GTC 2021 this year, like speeding up algorithms for bioinformatics, and new CPU/GPU combinations for autonomous driving. I would guess that the immense amount of R&D spent by Nvidia is causing this gap.
Re:AMD Reports Q1 2021 Earnings by floatboth on Wednesday April 28, 2021 @08:34AM (#26968611)
It's really disappointing that the GPGPU space isn't adopting Vulkan all that fast. These "compute specific" things such as OpenCL/CUDA/ROCm should not be necessary and should die. Just use Vulkan for fuck's sake.
Re:AMD Reports Q1 2021 Earnings by rubatuga on Thursday April 29, 2021 @12:19AM (#26977434)
Libraries like cublas and cudnn help the GPU scheduler assign tasks to specialized blocks on the graphics card. Vulkan would slow this innovation down severely. Unless they make Vulkan extensions? I’m not too sure how that would work.

Personally I haven’t used CUDA, but if anybody could comment on its ease of use compared to Vulkan that would be great.

Re:AMD Reports Q1 2021 Earnings by floatboth on Thursday April 29, 2021 @06:29AM (#26979408)
> help the GPU scheduler assign tasks to specialized blocks

Source? I can't find anything for '"cublas" scheduler'…

Re:AMD Reports Q1 2021 Earnings by rubatuga on Saturday May 01, 2021 @09:31PM (#27011597)
The GEMM instructions are sent to Tensor Cores by the scheduler. The cutlass library is the open source version of cublas:

https://github.com/NVIDIA/cutlass

Re:AMD Reports Q1 2021 Earnings by floatboth on Friday May 07, 2021 @06:34AM (#27074399)
Seems like you can leverage those via VK_NV_cooperative_matrix…
Re:AMD Reports Q1 2021 Earnings by kd913 on Wednesday April 28, 2021 @07:12AM (#26968037)
This is the kind of thing where the whole Xilinx acquisition is gonna make a play.

Bespoke accelerator FPGA solutions are the future and will probably scale a lot longer than CPU/GPU combinations.

Re:AMD Reports Q1 2021 Earnings by davrosthedalek on Wednesday April 28, 2021 @08:45AM (#26968688)
I really doubt that. FPGA is really power and silicon intensive. A more traditional "many 'fixed function' processor" a la GPU will beat it for any algorithm which at least semi-successfully maps to the provided operations. And most math is matrix multiplication anyway, if you squint your eyes and hold your tongue at the right angle ;)

(I use "fixed function" loosely here. It's not a fixed function T&L pipleline, it's meant in the "the circuit is fixed but can execute arbitrary code" sense.)

Re:AMD Reports Q1 2021 Earnings by kd913 on Wednesday April 28, 2021 @10:45AM (#26969949)
You can doubt it all you want, but this is where Xilinx Alveo is coming into play.

This isn't my space as I operate on low-latency networking side.

> A more traditional "many 'fixed function' processor" a la GPU will beat it for any algorithm which at least semi-successfully maps to the provided operations. And most math is matrix multiplication anyway, if you squint your eyes and hold your tongue at the right angle ;)

I don't think it is as simple as this. Certainly not for low-latency scenarios or for HPC efficiency where the gains are done my moving as much computation as possible onto accelerator cards and off the CPU.

The cost of moving things back and forth from the CPU can be expensive (data especially). We are already seeing dedicated solutions from Google, Graphcore that beats the pants off the traditional GPU/CPU approach.

Re:AMD Reports Q1 2021 Earnings by davrosthedalek on Wednesday April 28, 2021 @11:42AM (#26970647)
How does FPGA fabric solve the bw bottleneck exactly? What solves it is putting the compute power closer to the CPU (or memory). But you can do that with an FPGA or a GPU, or a CPU matrix etc. Compared to FPGA, the others will have much more compute power(especially for HPC) in the same die size/heat envelope.
Re:AMD Reports Q1 2021 Earnings by kd913 on Wednesday April 28, 2021 @02:23PM (#26972428)
I think the idea is to bring the compute power closer to the storage or NIC devices. At least that is the impression I am getting from their smartNIC/smartssd device.

In this case being video streaming in from the NIC, encoding/decoding occurring directly on the NIC.

Same to a degree with the bespoke smartssd where if you have some complex encryption, encoding, decoding or data driven application than the processing happens directly on the storage device via the FPGA.

Re:AMD Reports Q1 2021 Earnings by merb on Wednesday April 28, 2021 @12:52PM (#26971524)
it will get worse, since nvidia lifted some IOMMU limitations in their consumer cards: https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/5173/~/g...

this is a big deal especially since ai tech advanced.

Re:AMD Reports Q1 2021 Earnings by lhl on Wednesday April 28, 2021 @03:35AM (#26966765)
I agree that the state of AMD's dGPUs still leave a lot to be desired, but they've been making some progress at least. On the consumer side, RDNA2 is raster, transistor, and power (albiet on a more efficient node) competitive with Ampere, which is big step up from previous generations. Thanks to having performance competitive top-end/halo cards, AMD GPUs have gotten a consumer mindshare win that they haven't had in years. RDNA3 should be even more exciting, with another big rumored perf/efficiency gain and their first MCM implementation. It should be exciting to see not just RDNA3 vs Lovelace, but also to see how Intel's DG2 changes the dynamic, since budget and mid-end competition has been completely non-existent lately. Everyone's selling all the chips/boards they can make atm due to largely to cryptomining and other supply chain issues, so I guess AMD gets a mulligan until next-gen (especially considering how currently for AMD, every GPU made means giving up 10X the profit on enterprise CPU cores due to shared die capacity constraints).

The other thing worth noting on the consumer side is that Zen 4 should also bring Navi 2 and DDR5 to their APUs. AMD's current APUs can already handle most eSports/low-end games at 1080p [1] but this next iGPU bump has the potential to displace the low-end AIB/dGPU market completely. When looking outside of the AIB numbers, AMD (and Intel) continue to increase unit shipments/gain market share at Nvidia's expense. [2]

As for GPU compute, there's no question that Nvidia continues dominate and it feels like if anything, AMD is falling further behind. While I have some hopes for CDNA/2 and ROCm continuing to mature, their ongoing lack of support for even basic stuff like desktop OpenCL or any RDNA cards means that AMD is moving backwards as far as ecosystem support goes. I really can't think of a better way to stunt adoption than to have no ML/compute support for the majority of their products. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

On the process side, assuming Intel suffers no more delays on 7nm (a big assumption), it will still be half a step and half a year behind TSMC's N3 process in 2023 (beyond that, I suppose it'll be an open question of who gets their GAAFET working). AMD's CPU architecture team has a pretty solid track record at this point though, and I don't think Zen 4 or Zen 5 will be at any particular disadvantage vs Granite Rapids.

Obviously, AMD has lots of competition, but as long as they keep executing, I think they have a pretty bright future (also, we'll have to see how Xilinx plays out).

[1] https://static.techspot.com/images2/news/bigimage/2021/04/20...

[2] https://www.jonpeddie.com/press-releases/gpu-shipments-soar-...

Re:AMD Reports Q1 2021 Earnings by ksec on Wednesday April 28, 2021 @05:27AM (#26967455)
Thank You, I dont follow closely on the GPU front. I will read up on some of the information provided.
Re:AMD Reports Q1 2021 Earnings by volta83 on Wednesday April 28, 2021 @03:55AM (#26966866)
> On the consumer side, RDNA2 is raster, transistor, and power (albiet on a more efficient node) competitive with Ampere, which is big step up from previous generations. Thanks to having performance competitive top-end/halo cards, AMD GPUs have gotten a consumer mindshare win that they haven't had in years.

TBH, the only reason I pay 800$ for a card today is to play games with ray tracing on at an acceptable resolution. This is only possible with nvidia RTX + DLSS.

I wouldn't pay 800$ for an AMD card that gets me similar rasterization performance but none of the "modern" (3 year old already...) features I care about.

Right now, _any_ GFX card is better than having no GFX. Both NVIDIA and AMD are sold out.

I can't know how real the AMD mindshare is. We probably could only know if we had a market with enough supply of both.