News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model by PartiallyTyped on Friday April 23, 2021 @06:15AM (#26913047)
I don't disagree that 8GiB for $1700 machine is absurd, however, I feel compelled to point out that MacOS is significantly more aggressive with memory compression than other operating systems and they come with blazingly fast SSDs, allowing devices to get away with less available memory.
Re:Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model by runeks on Friday April 23, 2021 @06:22AM (#26913105)
A blazingly fast SSD is excruciatingly slow RAM.
Re:Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model by kaba0 on Friday April 23, 2021 @10:05AM (#26914906)
In-memory memory compression is the most meaningful part of what parent comment said. And it helps tremendously on other systems as well, for example zram is quite underhyped on linux.
Re:Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model by rogers18445 on Friday April 23, 2021 @11:26AM (#26915701)
zram is a game changer. I believed I needed to upgrade 16gb to 32gb, with zram and a decent cpu no I don't. 97% full memory + 20GB zram swap and no noticeable problems.
Re:Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model by r00fus on Friday April 23, 2021 @05:44PM (#26919575)
The M1 SoC interconnects are what makes their SSD seem like swapping to disk doesn't even feel slow.
Re:Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model by PartiallyTyped on Friday April 23, 2021 @06:25AM (#26913122)
I am trying to figure out where I said anything on the contrary.
Re:Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model by matkoniecz on Friday April 23, 2021 @06:32AM (#26913179)
You mentioned "they come with blazingly fast SSDs" as part of what is "allowing devices to get away with less available memory"
Re:Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model by PartiallyTyped on Friday April 23, 2021 @07:03AM (#26913406)
I did indeed, I never said that SSDs are a replacement for RAM, I just said that having access to 2.5GiB/s RW operations allows you to offload many things into the SSD, yes, thrashing is an issue, but it is much more insignificant at those speeds than disks.

I am not defending apple in any way whatsoever, I even mentioned in the first sentence of the comment. I stated that they are able to do that because they compensate with compression and SSDs, applications in the background can be thrown in the swap and the user will rarely notice.

Re:Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model by detaro on Friday April 23, 2021 @07:49AM (#26913725)
2.5GB/s isn't really all that extraordinary speed anymore.
Re:Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model by astrange on Friday April 23, 2021 @08:02AM (#26913822)
The part you're skipping over is the memory compression, which is much more important than you think it is.
Re:Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model by kamranjon on Friday April 23, 2021 @06:34AM (#26913188)
I think they are saying that you will start swapping to disk with that little ram.
Re:Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model by znpy on Friday April 23, 2021 @06:27AM (#26913134)
I don't even bother reasoning with apple fans anymore. It's a losing game.
Re:Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model by PartiallyTyped on Friday April 23, 2021 @06:56AM (#26913346)
It's not even an argument, their comment is a fact that does not change nor contribute anything.
Re:Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model by jeswin on Friday April 23, 2021 @07:02AM (#26913390)
> and they come with blazingly fast SSDs...

Actually, they're somewhat slow compared to the competition.

A 500GB M1 SSD gives you about 3.1GB/s of write and 2.75GB/s of read performance [1]. In comparison - a $219 Samsung 980 Pro benchmarks at 4.2GB/s of write and 5.2GB/s of read performance [2]. Both on Disk Test from Black Magic.

[1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/mac/comments/k2lhi8/ssd_speedtest_o...

[2]: https://www.servethehome.com/samsung-980-pro-500gb-pcie-gen4....

Re:Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model by PartiallyTyped on Friday April 23, 2021 @07:05AM (#26913421)
Oh wow, Gen4 NVMes are really fast. Thanks for the link!
Re:Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model by emptyfile on Friday April 23, 2021 @06:29AM (#26913152)
> blazingly fast SSDs

So like, 2 times as fast as any other SSD? No? The comment reads like marketing spiel.

Re:Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model by PartiallyTyped on Friday April 23, 2021 @06:55AM (#26913342)
Re:Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model by necovek on Friday April 23, 2021 @08:00AM (#26913801)
What makes you think it's random RW?

Fastest SSDs barely reach 200MiB/s on 4k block random writes (reads are usually slower, likely because they can't be cached if they are truly random):

- 124MB/s for Samsung 980 Pro (https://www.servethehome.com/samsung-980-pro-500gb-pcie-gen4...) - 211MB/s for Sabrent Rocket 4 Plus (https://www.servethehome.com/sabrent-rocket-4-plus-2tb-revie...) - 171MB/s for Intel 670p (https://www.servethehome.com/intel-670p-2tb-m-2-nvme-ssd-rev...)

32/64 queue depths generally do not apply to desktop computing since you are unlikely to read that many file streams simultaneously (or rather, your one program that you care about right now might be loading only a few files at once, which is what you'd perceive as the SSD speed: the fact that OS services might be accessing other stuff in the background does not help much there).

Re:Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model by danieldk on Friday April 23, 2021 @07:37AM (#26913630)
BlackMagic tests video workloads using sequential reads/swrites. 2.2/2.7 GiB/s is pretty average for a modern NVMe SSD. Even consumer-level Samsung NVMe SSDs are faster.