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Re:Unicode Proposal – Textile Care Symbols by TeMPOraL on Thursday April 22, 2021 @06:52AM (#26901257)
Standard Textile Care Symbols? There is an actual standard for that?

It's a serious question. As far as I can tell, going by my wardrobe, there isn't. It's always been one of the minor annoyances in my life - clothing and clothing-adjacent vendors put these icons on their products, and I have no first clue what they mean, because which family of signs is used seems to depend on some combination of country of origin, target market, and the position of Saturn relative to Jupiter.

Re:Unicode Proposal – Textile Care Symbols by throw0101a on Thursday April 22, 2021 @09:16AM (#26902387)
> Standard Textile Care Symbols? There is an actual standard for that?

ISO 3758:2012, Textiles — Care labelling code using symbols:

* https://www.iso.org/standard/42918.html

See also GB/T 8685, JIS L 0001:2014, ASTM D5489-96c, which are national versions that are basically the same as ISO:

* PDF: https://www.intertek.com/uploadedFiles/Intertek/Divisions/Co...

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laundry_symbol

Re:Unicode Proposal – Textile Care Symbols by TeMPOraL on Friday April 23, 2021 @04:10AM (#26912309)
Thanks!

In case someone still finds this thread: standards my ass. Guess what, in Poland we have different ISO 3758:2012 symbols. Compare [0] with [1]. As it turns out, some of the symbols have "A" and "B" variant, and we use the "B" one for some reason.

Also I couldn't figure out WTF is "drip drying", and how "drip line drying" and "drip flat drying" differ from "line drying" and "flat drying". The Internet is very unhelpful here - every single article I saw assumed you already know what it means. Fortunately, [1] contained a note that the methods of drying are defined in ISO 6330:2000, and as luck would have it, I saw a copy of ISO 6330:2000 fall out of the back of a truck. Taking a quick peek, I now know that "drip line/flat drying" means...

...just "line/flat drying", except you set your washing machine to not do the final spinning cycle.

--

- [0] - EN ISO 3758:2012 :: http://labritex.com/wp-content/uploads/ISO-3758-Care-symbols...

- [1] - PN-EN ISO 3758:2012 :: https://www.eurowolle.pl/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/piktogra...

Re:Unicode Proposal – Textile Care Symbols by throw0101a on Friday April 23, 2021 @07:41AM (#26913662)
> In case someone still finds this thread: standards my ass.

The standard is there. If people decide not to use it that's on them. Just because the US decides not to use the SI units, that says less about the metric system and more about the US.

Most countries in the EU (AFAICT) do use the ISO standard.

The fact that one country does not use it is not an argument that that standard is not a standard.

Re:Unicode Proposal – Textile Care Symbols by TeMPOraL on Friday April 23, 2021 @05:32PM (#26919458)
> The fact that one country does not use it is not an argument that that standard is not a standard.

My point was slightly different. Poland does use the standard, the same standard. It just so happens that the standard has "B" variants for several icons.

I guess it's sort of an improvement that I only need to know 1.5 sets of icons instead of 3-5 different ones.

Re:Unicode Proposal – Textile Care Symbols by dmurray on Thursday April 22, 2021 @07:15AM (#26901416)
Having different displays for different markets is exactly what Unicode allows for: you specify the intended symbol, and then it's localised in the font you choose. An example from the proposal is "flat dry when wet, European variant has two bars, US and Canadian variant has three bars".

A glyph in one font may look confusingly similar to a completely different glyph in another font (or the same font). If you don't have a digital version you then have to rely on context clues. You can quite reliably tell if a given C is LATIN CAPITAL LETTER C or CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER ES, by assessing the surrounding text and the medium to see if the author was most likely writing for a Russian or an English audience.

Of course, it's possible that manufacturers currently mix contexts confusingly. In that case, having each one draw from a single Unicode palette should help.

Re:Unicode Proposal – Textile Care Symbols by grishka on Thursday April 22, 2021 @07:58AM (#26901728)
This whole "is it Cyrillic or Latin" confusion sometimes does happen IRL. There's an insurance company that has its logo in all capitals: PECO. For most of my life I've always read it as Latin. But at some point I heard it in a TV commercial and they said it as "reso". Yikes.

Also РОСНАНО. It's not "pochaho", it's "rosnano".

The reverse is also true: there's a "Bona Capona" restaurant but its logo uses a typeface that makes it tempting to read it as "Vopa Saropa".

Re:Unicode Proposal – Textile Care Symbols by aasasd on Thursday April 22, 2021 @05:24PM (#26908394)
Well thankfully the rest of the world aren't subjected to the Cyrillic-Latin confusion, because it's only inside the country that Russian companies use the mix of Cyrillic and Latin... And specifically English, while a lot of people over twenty-five can't pronounce or read English.
Re:Unicode Proposal – Textile Care Symbols by grishka on Friday April 23, 2021 @01:02AM (#26911132)
I'm genuinely envious to people who can get by with just a single keyboard layout.
Re:Unicode Proposal – Textile Care Symbols by dmurray on Thursday April 22, 2021 @07:09PM (#26909230)
Anyone who needs to deal with the language formerly known as Serbo-Croat might disagree.
Re:Unicode Proposal – Textile Care Symbols by aasasd on Thursday April 22, 2021 @07:56PM (#26909552)
Ah, well, I should've written ‘Russian-Latin confusion’—forgot about the alphabet changeovers. But at least I'm told that:

> It can be written in Serbian Cyrillic or Gaj's Latin alphabet, whose thirty letters mutually map one-to-one, and the orthography is highly phonemic in all standards.

Though digraphs spoil the clarity somewhat.

Which reminded me that I should check what Kazakhstan is doing to its language. They seem to at least have avoided the eldritch monstrosity of Polish with ‘Grzegorz Brzęczyszczykiewicz’ and the like (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfKZclMWS1U). But they are still setting themselves up for English-language people pretending they can pronounce anything Latin-looking—despite English itself demanding you memorize the dictionary twice, for speaking and writing. So Kazakhstan will soon have its own great writer Karel Kaypek.

Re:Unicode Proposal – Textile Care Symbols by leoedin on Thursday April 22, 2021 @07:33AM (#26901548)
Are fonts consistently localised? What happens if the pool of people who use a font (eg Arial) contain multiple washing symbol regions? Do you spin up a new, localised font for every country?
Re:Unicode Proposal – Textile Care Symbols by TheRealPomax on Thursday April 22, 2021 @12:10PM (#26904419)
No, you simply rely on your tooling, which should allow you to set the locale (or "script", which is the OpenType term for it) for your content.

Thankfully, a lot of tooling designed to present text to a human (From Word to LaTeX to HTML) already have ways to do this, so folks writing textile documentation will now be able to take advantage of this, too.

Re:Unicode Proposal – Textile Care Symbols by zinekeller on Thursday April 22, 2021 @07:08AM (#26901368)
Where are you from? Serious question, since Europe do tend to have standard symbols for nearly everything due to cross-border (and cross-cultural) differences, while this is meh (why? we have English!) to North America.
Re:Unicode Proposal – Textile Care Symbols by AnssiH on Thursday April 22, 2021 @07:43AM (#26901618)
I believe this regional symbols vs. text difference can also be seen in many washing machines - it is quite common to have symbols for the knobs and settings here (e.g. https://imgur.com/a/7yRzT), while I've understood that this isn't common in e.g. US.

Though I thought textile care symbols are common in US as well, or at least I think all my US-bought clothes have them too. So this is probably not one of those US-Europe differences.

Re:Unicode Proposal – Textile Care Symbols by TeMPOraL on Thursday April 22, 2021 @07:38AM (#26901576)
Poland, EU.

I remember doing some Internet searches for this over a decade ago, back when I started doing my own laundry :). Maybe I didn't look thoroughly enough - but between that search and the actual labels on the clothes I had, I saw no indication of a standard.

Might be because my clothes were probably a mix of branded things sold on EU market, and (mostly) unbranded ones I bought on a bazaar, which could've been imported from Turkey or East Asia.

Re:Unicode Proposal – Textile Care Symbols by zinekeller on Thursday April 22, 2021 @10:03AM (#26902863)
Makes sense since it was over a decade ago. US and Asian textile care symbols were a bad mess (differs from brand to brand) back then (while ISO sensibly implemented the then-EN standard because they were the same across brands).
Re:Unicode Proposal – Textile Care Symbols by Hamuko on Thursday April 22, 2021 @07:22AM (#26901462)
I think I have three different sets of textile care symbols in my closet depending on whether the piece of clothing was ordered from the US, Europe or Japan. It's a handful.
Re:Unicode Proposal – Textile Care Symbols by Tomte on Thursday April 22, 2021 @07:07AM (#26901363)
ISO 3758:2012
Re:Unicode Proposal – Textile Care Symbols by martyvis on Thursday April 22, 2021 @07:37AM (#26901567)
So the entry fee to work out how to wash my clothes is 113 Swiss Francs (for the standard PDF)? Cheaper to buy new underwear every week
Re:Unicode Proposal – Textile Care Symbols by ooOOoo on Thursday April 22, 2021 @07:53AM (#26901700)
Re:Unicode Proposal – Textile Care Symbols by Tomte on Thursday April 22, 2021 @07:42AM (#26901609)
If you're the type of guy who doesn't know how to use a screw unless he's read ISO 68-1, sure.

The rest of us learn from our parents. Or books. Or even Wikipedia.

Re:Unicode Proposal – Textile Care Symbols by peterburkimsher on Thursday April 22, 2021 @08:36AM (#26902019)
Also ISO 7000 - Graphical symbols for use on equipment

Example: do not iron.

https://www.iso.org/obp/ui#iso:grs:7000:3113

Re:Unicode Proposal – Textile Care Symbols by TeMPOraL on Friday April 23, 2021 @04:11AM (#26912313)
Turned out to not be so obvious after all.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26912309

Re:Unicode Proposal – Textile Care Symbols by TeMPOraL on Thursday April 22, 2021 @07:32AM (#26901530)
Thanks!
Re:Unicode Proposal – Textile Care Symbols by WalterBright on Thursday April 22, 2021 @05:06PM (#26908203)
Too bad there's no vaccination for iconitis.