News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Initial preview of GUI app support for the Windows Subsys... by synergy20 on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @02:22PM (#26893507)
Microsoft, just go all in: embrace Linux kernel and make a MS GUI on top of it, call it MSLinux or something. It will save time/money along the way I believe.
Re:Initial preview of GUI app support for the Windows Subsys... by brundolf on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @02:40PM (#26893746)
One of the main values of Windows today, at least for businesses, is backwards-compatibility- not the GUI. DOS programs still run on it, if that tells you anything. So they aren't going to be dropping Windows Proper in favor of a skinned Linux distro any time soon.

That said, maybe it would be feasible if they built a "Linux subsystem for Windows" that could run any legacy Windows app inside Linux, just like Windows can currently run any legacy DOS app (without actually being based on DOS). An official Wine, if you will.

Re:Initial preview of GUI app support for the Windows Subsys... by TheRealDunkirk on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @05:06PM (#26895457)
> One of the main values of Windows today, at least for businesses, is backwards-compatibility

That may be true for small businesses, but I think the single biggest value of Windows to BIG businesses is the ability to screw around with the policies such that, for instance, you can lock a user out of changing their screensaver timeout or their desktop background, as though this had any actual impact on security.

My corporate laptop is infested with tracker programs and scripts which make sure I literally can't do anything with it that I shouldn't, but I have friends who work at places which have even more "corporatized" environments. At least, as a dev, I'm allowed to have local admin through a separate, privileged account.

Thanks to a Microsoft-funded trade press, every CIO of a Fortune-sized company believes you have to implement all of this crap in order to be "secure." (Meanwhile, the mainframe skates by on non-encrypted connections and 6-digit alphanumeric passwords. Straining at gnats and swallowing camels.)

We switched from Lotus to Office365, for a few glorious months, I could access everything from my personal Mac. Then they instituted Mobile Iron. So I created a Windows VM to let MI have it's way with, but then my company further locked down Office365 (and the Azure portal and everything else) so that ONLY their images could get to them. Sigh.

I have scores of company-specific programs on my laptop. They're all either Java or .NET, and could easily be recompiled for Linux or Mac. (I've done it for several of my own programs.) Every commercial app I have is supported on at least Mac. Everything else is web-based anyway. The only thing keeping companies on Windows is the control it gives them over the desktop. I, for one, am very glad that people involved in Linux don't care about this aspect of computing, and that Apple is catering to PEOPLE, not companies.

Re:Initial preview of GUI app support for the Windows Subsys... by merb on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @04:11PM (#26894809)
> DOS programs still run on it, if that tells you anything

trust me without dosbox a shit ton of stuff does not work anymore. heck even tons of xp software does not work on win 10 or needs patches (especially games) compat is dropped more and more, especially old cruft that is barely used.

Re:Initial preview of GUI app support for the Windows Subsys... by TheRealDunkirk on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @05:08PM (#26895476)
Yeah, I went to install some older games in my Steam library, and some of my favorites need so much futzing, I just gave up. I considered building an XP machine, but gave up that for the same reasons. I'm just too old for this crap any more.
Re:Initial preview of GUI app support for the Windows Subsys... by mycall on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @09:21PM (#26897545)
https://exodos.the-eye.us

You're welcome :)

Re:Initial preview of GUI app support for the Windows Subsys... by mixmastamyk on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @04:02PM (#26894694)
64-bit Windows doesn't support 16 or 8 bit applications any longer, a VM is needed. At that point it doesn't matter much what the host OS is.
Re:Initial preview of GUI app support for the Windows Subsys... by marcodiego on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @04:03PM (#26894700)
> DOS programs still run on it,

I don't think that is correct. Any windows after 9x will need something like dosbox to run dos programs.

Re:Initial preview of GUI app support for the Windows Subsys... by sumtechguy on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @04:24PM (#26894968)
NT has NTVDM. It worked on many applications up until they added 64 bit into the mix. At which point they never ported it over. Once you move to any 64 bit version you can no longer do that and need a VM or DOSBox. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_DOS_machine

Also NTVDM was kind of hit or miss. So if you are using a 32 bit version of any windows you may still get away with running many DOS and win16 applications. But within a particular set of limitations.

Re:Initial preview of GUI app support for the Windows Subsys... by anthk on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @11:07PM (#26898293)
The only good NTVDM is the ReactOS' one. The one from MS itself is very flakey.
Re:Initial preview of GUI app support for the Windows Subsys... by efreak on Monday April 26, 2021 @12:58AM (#26939355)
Try winevdm[1] or ntvdmx64[2], which I believe is based on leaked Microsoft source code. I've successfully gotten Tetris running on win10x64, and I'm happy enough with not needing dosbox+win3x for it.

1: https://github.com/otya128/winevdm 2: https://github.com/leecher1337/ntvdmx64

Re:Initial preview of GUI app support for the Windows Subsys... by devmor on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @02:24PM (#26893526)
Microsoft actually already has a linux distro of their own for internal use. So they're partway there.
Re:Initial preview of GUI app support for the Windows Subsys... by jonpalmisc on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @02:38PM (#26893723)
Any more info on this available? I'd be curious to read about it.
Re:Initial preview of GUI app support for the Windows Subsys... by favorited on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @02:49PM (#26893877)
Re:Initial preview of GUI app support for the Windows Subsys... by disk0 on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @03:58PM (#26894651)
Coincedentally,

  The system distro is where all of the magic happens. The sytem distro is a containerized Linux environment where the WSLg XServer, Wayland server and Pulse Audio server are running.
  ...
  The system distro is based on the Microsoft CBL-Mariner Linux. This is a minimal Linux environment, just enough to run the various pieces of WSLg. For details on how to build and deploy a private system distro please see our build instructions. [0]
[0]: https://github.com/microsoft/wslg#wslg-system-distro
Re:Initial preview of GUI app support for the Windows Subsys... by neilsimp1 on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @02:45PM (#26893809)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azure_Sphere

As far as I know, it's the only Linux distro that requires Windows and VS in order to build it.

Re:Initial preview of GUI app support for the Windows Subsys... by davidgerard on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @04:56PM (#26895347)
As predicted by Wired in 2005: https://www.wired.com/2005/02/microsoft-5/
Re:Initial preview of GUI app support for the Windows Subsys... by voidfunc on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @02:29PM (#26893596)
Why? Theres literally no good reason to do this except for the developer/ops market and its not clear its a major benefit over the current approach which works well for most users.
Re:Initial preview of GUI app support for the Windows Subsys... by Narishma on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @06:30PM (#26896259)
Call it Xinux.
Re:Initial preview of GUI app support for the Windows Subsys... by smoldesu on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @02:39PM (#26893735)
I think that long-term, that's the plan. They're going to need a few years to switch their tooling over though, but I think Linux could have an incredible Windows Legacy Layer if Microsoft had the initiative to make one desu.
Re:Initial preview of GUI app support for the Windows Subsys... by dcow on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @02:37PM (#26893718)
Dear Microsoft, please release an open source window manager that runs on linux. You can call it windows. If you add tiling support I will never touch another Mac. Only you can usher in the era of the linux desktop. Make Linus’ dream a reality. Humbly, your servant.
Re:Initial preview of GUI app support for the Windows Subsys... by Beached on Thursday April 22, 2021 @03:36AM (#26899876)
there is a hint of /s here, but the linux desktop world is a complete mess imo. windows going head to head with the incumbents like gnome could be huge for linux. I know I would be very interested to see what ms could do in this space.
Re:Initial preview of GUI app support for the Windows Subsys... by dcow on Thursday April 22, 2021 @11:46AM (#26904080)
I’m actually pretty serious and mostly poking fun at myself for how excited I would be if MS actually did this.