News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Apple Approves Parler to Return to App Store by nostromo on Monday April 19, 2021 @12:32PM (#26864671)
> About the only thing Twitter censored was threats of violence or rape, election misinformation, or extremely blatant racism.

Twitter blocked the NYPost because they didn't approve of their entirely factual journalism.

Re:Apple Approves Parler to Return to App Store by kbar13 on Monday April 19, 2021 @12:36PM (#26864716)
cannot tell if sarcasm because the NYPost is very much not entirely factual lol
Re:Apple Approves Parler to Return to App Store by roenxi on Monday April 19, 2021 @01:29PM (#26865526)
While I certainly believe there is an objective truth that can be divined by patient review of the facts, the Twitter, Inc. HQ is a long way down the list of places I would look for guidance.

Twitter can certainly kick whoever they want off their platform for whatever reason. However they don't know anything more about breaking news than the rest of us. They cannot have banned a breaking story because it isn't true, the reason being that they couldn't know.

If they banned a NYPost article based on the newspaper's reputation, that is a ban on a strictly political opinion.

Re:Apple Approves Parler to Return to App Store by ravenstine on Monday April 19, 2021 @12:54PM (#26864972)
How was Twitter supposed to know that unless they independently investigated the story at the same time as NYPost before NYPost broke it?

This is the danger with censoring "fake news". Obviously there's a huge grey area, since I don't think many people would object to censoring falsehoods that are agreed upon to be harmful to the public, like claiming that 5G spreads COVID-19.

But with something like the Hunter Biden story, who exactly are these companies like Twitter to almost immediately censor such stories, whether they seem specious or not? Do they hire people specifically for their background in journalistic ethics?

Yes, they are private companies. We are also treating them as arbiters of truth and have handed a massive amount of power to them. They can absolutely censor what they want to censor, but that doesn't mean people are wrong for pointing out the bias and the danger present in exercising such strong armed control over what information people want access to.

By the way, telling people they can't see something only makes them want to see it more. Can we hardly blame people for distrusting Twitter because, for some reason, Twitter had an interest in hiding a story of political interest counted to their own?

If Twitter is only to sanction stories that they believe are true, then they are completely falling flat when it comes to the sheer amount of specious tripe that comes out of the mainstream media. I can't count on both hands the number of times I've read articles making claims based on a study, only to use Sci-hub to look up the actual study and find that it completely contradicts the claim some journalist was making.

Re:Apple Approves Parler to Return to App Store by nostromo on Monday April 19, 2021 @12:42PM (#26864803)
They were blocked for posting a specific article about the Biden family. The article was factual and was of public interest.

The fig leaf they used to justify it was that it exposed an email from a public official (a Ukrainian gas executive) and was "hacked/unauthorized" material. Of course, journalists use unauthorized information all the time (Snowden, Trump's tax returns, etc.) without getting banned from Twitter.

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Re:Apple Approves Parler to Return to App Store by downandout on Monday April 19, 2021 @11:13PM (#26870308)
The article was a smear campaign

The article was the 100% fact based. The facts laid out in it just happened to not line up with Twitter's preferred election outcome, so they silenced it.

Re:Apple Approves Parler to Return to App Store by hcurtiss on Monday April 19, 2021 @12:40PM (#26864764)
There's been a lot of validation of the Biden laptop story, which was the impetus for Twitter shutting down NYPost.
Re:Apple Approves Parler to Return to App Store by jasonwatkinspdx on Monday April 19, 2021 @12:49PM (#26864911)
There most definitely has not. It remains entirely unsubstantiated, while several other claims in the post story are directly contradicted by ample public records.
Re:Apple Approves Parler to Return to App Store by stevenicr on Monday April 19, 2021 @02:36PM (#26866409)
April 2 (?) interview, (20/20?) - he says it could be his laptop, or it could be fake - he doesn't know - I thought that came out recently establishing that yeah it most likely is his laptop, he's pulling a 'I can't recall' - then feel sad for past drug addiction. ( https://www.startpage.com/do/dsearch?query=20%2F20+hunter+sa... )

So I would not say "entirely unsubstantiated" -

In fact I would read between the lines and be real - he's certainly seen the articles quoting emails and pics and such - if this was a setup / fake plant - he could of said 'hey that could be my laptop, but I never emailed X and never had a pic of Y - so the thing is false flag - He did say deny the content and owned up to the possibility that it was his hardware - so..

If I'm wrong and don't know the whole context I am open to consider whole truth, admittedly have not watched the whole interview (yet, and don't want to, but will if people say this or that)

At this point it certainly seems that twitter censored something as voting disinfomation or election manipulation - and that by censoring it twitter actually created disinformation / election manipulation.

With this, being such an important thing - I am okay if corrected and find out my current understanding is wrong.

Re:Apple Approves Parler to Return to App Store by stevenicr on Monday April 19, 2021 @09:08PM (#26869680)
* "He did say deny the content" (typo)

should be more clear.

"He did not say, "I deny the content" - and owned up to the possibility that it was his hardware - so.

and the issues about the story that were brought up, were indeed 'the content' of the emails and such.. which did not get much public discourse.

Re:Apple Approves Parler to Return to App Store by treesprite82 on Monday April 19, 2021 @01:47PM (#26865806)
The DKIM signature of the "bombshell email" (Vadym Pozharskyi thanking Hunter for giving him the opportunity to meet and spend time with Joe Biden) is publicly available and can be verified. Other people involved in the emails have also corroborated their legitimacy.

The laptop story seems like the most probable explanation of this leak, given the documents and FBI correspondence provided. Most attempts I've seen to debunk it seem dishonest or misleading, like "the PDFs' metadata showed they had been created in the fall of 2019, though the emails were supposedly from 2014 and 2015" as if anyone expected the PDF compilation of incriminating emails to be pre-made by Hunter.

While the email is real and the laptop story seems the most probable explanation, the email doesn't necessarily imply corruption on Joe Biden's part or even that he discussed anything business-related with Pozharskyi.

Re:Apple Approves Parler to Return to App Store by patwolf on Monday April 19, 2021 @01:27PM (#26865485)
It's not accurate to say it was "entirely unsubstantiated". Other news sources besides the NY Post (most recently the Daily Mail) have claimed it was authentic, and Biden himself hasn't disputed its authenticity.

Regardless of the laptop though, there's clearly a double standard in what Twitter will block with or without proof. The Russian bounty program that was widely reported by the Washington Post and others during the election cycle was unsubstantiated, but no effort was made to block it.

Re:Apple Approves Parler to Return to App Store by pwned1 on Monday April 19, 2021 @01:30PM (#26865538)
Hunter Biden admitted it was his.
Re:Apple Approves Parler to Return to App Store by spoonjim on Monday April 19, 2021 @01:28PM (#26865514)
That wasn’t the basis on which Twitter suppressed the Hunter Biden story. Overall I think Twitter’s heart was in the right place as they know that the average voter can’t be trusted with the future of the country, but I can see why people are upset.
Re:Apple Approves Parler to Return to App Store by hcurtiss on Monday April 19, 2021 @03:07PM (#26866735)
"Twitter’s heart was in the right place as they know that the average voter can’t be trusted with the future of the country" -- that's an extraordinary statement. Who do you believe should be trusted with the future of the country? Social media platforms?
Re:Apple Approves Parler to Return to App Store by spoonjim on Monday April 19, 2021 @06:14PM (#26868489)
People who aren’t morons
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Re:Apple Approves Parler to Return to App Store by ceejayoz on Monday April 19, 2021 @12:57PM (#26865017)
There's a spectrum, and all news outlets will have incorrect information published from time to time, be it bad sources or bad reporting. Humans are involved, after all.

You'd also have to decide whether you include Fox/CNN/MSNBC's opinion segments in the evaluation, or just the news sections. (Fox and MSNBC are especially screwed in this evaluation if you include the opinion hours.) After that, decide if "technically true but highly misleading" counts as factual or not.

The NY Post has a long history of being sensationalist and misleading - there's a reason it's considered a tabloid.

Re:Apple Approves Parler to Return to App Store by zpeti on Monday April 19, 2021 @01:28PM (#26865511)
So is the NY Post the only tabloid in the world? What about the Sun in the UK? Daily mirror? I think based on your requirements all those should be fact checked 100% of the time and blocked when incorrect information is posted right? Or should it only be when it damages the preferred political candidate?
Re:Apple Approves Parler to Return to App Store by ceejayoz on Monday April 19, 2021 @01:49PM (#26865844)
I'm not aware of having expressed any "requirements" here.

I simply find "the NY Post is a less credible organization than the AP" to be a very sustainable opinion.

Re:Apple Approves Parler to Return to App Store by bobthechef on Monday April 19, 2021 @01:04PM (#26865126)
Ad hominem is in bad taste. And mind you, the same can be said of the major news outlets (NYTimes, etc).
Re:Apple Approves Parler to Return to App Store by luxuryballs on Monday April 19, 2021 @12:50PM (#26864919)
They also, on Jan 6th, deleted Trump posts and video post telling people to not be violent and unlawful and disorderly, and saying anyone doing otherwise will be brought to swift justice, right before banning him, all so they could feed the narrative that Trump wanted people to invade the Capitol.
Re:Apple Approves Parler to Return to App Store by ceejayoz on Monday April 19, 2021 @12:52PM (#26864953)
That video included the statements "We had an election that was stolen from us. It was a landslide election and everyone knows it, especially the other side." and "This was a fraudulent election..."

They were removed for being a repeat violation of the conduct he'd already been warned to avoid.

Re:Apple Approves Parler to Return to App Store by bellyfullofbac on Monday April 19, 2021 @01:03PM (#26865103)
I share your view of the situation, but it is fucking frustrating that "the other side" including the person you replied to probably will keep seeing it the way he described, even after you writing this explanation...
Re:Apple Approves Parler to Return to App Store by splithalf on Monday April 19, 2021 @01:34PM (#26865605)
There is a lot of whataboutism in society lately. The what about in this case are the many posts claiming the 2016 election was fraudulent, stolen, etc... While I personally understand the differences (the 2016 election really was stolen, but the 2020 election was not), I also understand why others do not agree and instead see both claims of election fraud as sour grapes, consistent with similar claims of election fraud from every close election in American politics in the past century. Dangling chads?
Re:Apple Approves Parler to Return to App Store by makomk on Monday April 19, 2021 @07:54PM (#26869187)
The claims about the 2016 election being stolen had no more factual basis than the claims about the 2020 election. Amazingly, there was even a supposed proof that the 2016 election was stolen circulating where, if you understood why the supposed election theft couldn't have worked as advertised, it was really obvious that the author knew this too and was pushing a narrative he knew was bullshit. The real difference is that the mainstream press and big tech supports the party that won in 2020 but opposes the one that won in 2016, so the idea of election theft was lent credibility by them for one and discredited for the other in ways completely unfounded in actual evidence.
Re:Apple Approves Parler to Return to App Store by splithalf on Monday April 19, 2021 @11:25PM (#26870367)
I think some of what you say is widely debated but it is disappointing that those who advocated better election security after 2016 did a 360 in 2020 and decided the same systems are now infallible. Election security shouldn’t be a partisan issue. Wholly suboptimal.
Re:Apple Approves Parler to Return to App Store by luxuryballs on Monday April 19, 2021 @01:15PM (#26865304)
I’m the person, and I don’t see these things as one or the other.

The election results questioning thing is a totally different topic but it doesn’t change the fact that people literally attempted to claim Trump wanted an insurrection and Twitter could have continued to flag things with their “election results” blurb rather than pulling the entire post.

I think we all can see what the common denominator is here... why not allow both the condemning of violence and lawlessness as well as the ability to “trust but verify” on election results?

Mitt Romney said “an audit won’t satisfy them only telling them the truth will” only nobody to this day even knows the truth yet, the best we can say is that we aren’t sure, and that leaves it open for either side to say they are sure about their angle.

Re:Apple Approves Parler to Return to App Store by michaelmrose on Monday April 19, 2021 @01:39PM (#26865684)
He spent months telling people that their country was being stolen from them when what's really happening is the country is moving on. He lied and he lied and he lied some more. He told them that if they didn't fight for him they wouldn't have a country and then he told them we need to go together to intimidate our lawmakers. Of course he didn't have the balls to march alongside them but he literally spent months feeding the anger, formed that particular crowd, and pointed them towards congress.

I was watching the entirety of the events through streamers cameras from start to finish. Were you?

Re:Apple Approves Parler to Return to App Store by luxuryballs on Monday April 19, 2021 @02:11PM (#26866129)
Yep, I even went down and checked it out on because I live near DC. I think lying is a strong word, saying that “you won’t have a country” is true but I think he’s talking about due to long term effects of bad policy, not literal country stealing (which makes no sense).

We also know that people have cheated in elections since the dawn of time, in the US it’s typical for each party to just ignore it for the sake of moving along, in this case we found a guy who didn’t care about towing party lines so he decided it was a hill to die on.

Right or wrong if anything he revealed some massive flaws in the system and if voting is as important as people say then it’s probably a good thing to be aware of and scrutinize.

Remember, he could be right, it came down to a mere handful of counties where the results were never able to be verified, and to this day the local officials have been blocking attempts to audit, even after judges ordered it or subpoenas were issued. Maricopa county audit is happening soon I think.

Re:Apple Approves Parler to Return to App Store by michaelmrose on Monday April 19, 2021 @03:25PM (#26866919)
We have no reason to suspect the election was anything but generally fair outside of small scale issues like the fellow who tried to vote for trump with a ballot obtained for his dead mother in law. Trump told tens of thousands of verifiable lies. Lying is exactly the correct word for what he did throughout his presidency and beyond. Almost every election could come down to a "handful" of counties if you selectively pick the most populous counties you lost, make up a tally that would result in victory, and then declare fraud must have taken place to achieve that fictional number.

By that logic any tennis match between an excellent player and a terrible one could be said to have been decided by a handful of mistakes and declaring without evidence that those calls were made badly.

The election was fairly lost by a huge margin of the electorate and a substantial EC vote margin. Trump is both a traitor to our country and a liar and you should stop apologizing for him.

Re:Apple Approves Parler to Return to App Store by luxuryballs on Monday April 19, 2021 @04:03PM (#26867323)
Are you joking? There’s a shit load of reasons to question the election results. We have just as much reason to trust them as we have to doubt them because they went entirely unverified in the counties that had irregularities. And no, it wasn’t lost by a large margin, it came down to questionably small margins in only a handful of counties.

Imagine a vote tally machine with a 60% failure rate (https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/20/20-815/163875/2020...), that means 60% of the time a single human being decided which candidate the ballot went to. Or how about this: https://postimg.cc/wtBWQpXw

All they needed to do was audit the ballots, it wouldn’t have even taken long. The reason lawyers did their best to block these audits was because they knew it was possible for them to lose if the audits went forward.

This is very much not about Donald Trump.

Re:Apple Approves Parler to Return to App Store by rOOb85 on Monday April 19, 2021 @05:11PM (#26868033)
What counties are you referring to that had irregularities and were not audited that would have changed the outcome of the election?
Re:Apple Approves Parler to Return to App Store by luxuryballs on Monday April 19, 2021 @09:45PM (#26869858)
Maricopa AZ, Fulton GA, Detroit... did you look at any of the links I posted?

This is pretty pointless because people have already made up their mind that there’s nothing there and nobody would ever lie or manipulate a count to “save the country from Hitler”, when in reality we still don’t know if that happened or not because everyone with the ability to check agreed not to check. I am not claiming to know there was enough fraud to swing it, just that they never confirmed there wasn’t, they just took the word of the local officials that the counts were correct. To me, that’s absolute insanity, and how anyone who is pro-democracy would support that is beyond me.

The Maricopa audit is happening soon, so that should be interesting. And the Fulton ballots were ordered by a Judge to be turned over a few weeks ago, but the local officials are appealing to block the audit!

Re:Apple Approves Parler to Return to App Store by philjohn on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @04:51AM (#26872253)
Fulton GA conducted a hand recount, along with the rest of GA, the numbers matched the tallies from the voting machines.
Re:Apple Approves Parler to Return to App Store by ceejayoz on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @08:57AM (#26873953)
Maricopa's is also the third audit to be pushed through by the local Republican party. It's just performative, wasteful spending at this point.
Re:Apple Approves Parler to Return to App Store by michaelmrose on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @10:22PM (#26898038)
Presumably they are trying to block further meandering political theatre because there has been sufficient process in place and its abnormal to be attempting to re litigate an election that wasn't even close almost 6 months after its lost.
Re:Apple Approves Parler to Return to App Store by ceejayoz on Monday April 19, 2021 @01:17PM (#26865336)
Describing "This was a fraudulent election" as "trust but verify" is incredibly disingenuous.
Re:Apple Approves Parler to Return to App Store by luxuryballs on Monday April 19, 2021 @02:16PM (#26866186)
Why? I just removed the Trump salesmanship hyperbole from the statement, the meaning is the same.
Re:Apple Approves Parler to Return to App Store by ceejayoz on Monday April 19, 2021 @02:20PM (#26866224)
In what world is "this election results were fraudulent" interpretable as "we should trust but verify the election results"?

Alleging fraud is an explicit lack of trust.

Re:Apple Approves Parler to Return to App Store by luxuryballs on Monday April 19, 2021 @03:12PM (#26866788)
I mean he’s just saying what he believes, he could be very well be right, we don’t know.

In my opinion a complete lack of trust should be the default stance when it comes to voting, we should ideally not have to trust anyone or anything for this.

Re:Apple Approves Parler to Return to App Store by rOOb85 on Monday April 19, 2021 @05:05PM (#26867973)
> I mean he’s just saying what he believes, he could be very well be right, we don’t know.

Except he is NOT right and we DO know. The election was NOT rigged or stolen from him. He lost. Plain and simple.

Re:Apple Approves Parler to Return to App Store by luxuryballs on Monday April 19, 2021 @09:39PM (#26869842)
Oh? How do you know? We’re still waiting on ballot audits in 4 counties, until they actually happen NOBODY knows. Saying otherwise is just dishonest.
Re:Apple Approves Parler to Return to App Store by SamReidHughes on Monday April 19, 2021 @01:12PM (#26865265)
Well there you go. Censorship.
Re:Apple Approves Parler to Return to App Store by ceejayoz on Monday April 19, 2021 @01:13PM (#26865282)
Sure. If I stand in a hotel lobby screaming the N-word they're gonna kick me out for that, too, and be well within their rights.

Private organizations have long had "follow our rules or be asked/told to leave" policies.

Re:Apple Approves Parler to Return to App Store by throwawaysea on Monday April 19, 2021 @01:35PM (#26865615)
Why is it wrong to allege that the election is stolen or fraudulent? The Democrats have done that repeatedly - 2000 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_v._Gore), 2004, and 2016 (https://www.allsides.com/blog/past-electoral-college-vote-ob...). They even did it this very election cycle (https://www.npr.org/2021/03/22/980023007/democrats-reviewing...).

It is completely legitimate to challenge election results. It is legal, and a part of our political process. It shouldn't be surprising either - it's hard to trust an election process that made a hasty and unplanned switch to mail-in voting, that altered the rules of the election arbitrarily (example https://www.npr.org/2020/10/19/922411176/supreme-court-rules...), etc. And with Democrats repeatedly pushing back on very reasonable voter ID laws, it seems that one side really does not want to make elections secure and instead leave security gaps open, which fuels those concerns further. We should all want a maximally-secure election process because it is the most fundamental piece of our political system.

Keep in mind, I am saying this as someone who believes that the amount of fraudulence alleged would not alter election outcomes. Regardless, it's important for our political process to play out in a trustworthy, transparent, and censorship-free way. Your phrasing of "violation of the conduct" tries to lend legitimacy to Twitter's actions. In reality Twitter simply engaged in one-sided censorship, basically providing election and campaign help to the Democrats because they (their executives, their employees) are politically biased.