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Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by wpietri on Thursday April 15, 2021 @01:25PM (#26823497)
Whatever the behind-the-scenes truth, I think the appearance of conflicting interests is a problem regardless. For a lot of elected offices and high public service positions, I think their wealth should be put into a blind trust, one constrained by law to buy broad, boring things like index funds.

That would surely be a problem for some individuals. But I don't think it's a systemic problem. We only need to find 0.00013% of the US population to fill the Senate and House together; surely there are that many people who are both competent and willing to put the public interest ahead of their own.

Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by psychlops on Thursday April 15, 2021 @01:51PM (#26823860)
Just require them to announce their trades publicly 24 hours in advance. And let them manage their own finances. All these shenanigan's would disappear.
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by lend000 on Thursday April 15, 2021 @02:09PM (#26824125)
Why should they be held under less scrutiny than CEO's? They typically have to clear their stock sales with the SEC months in advance.
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by cameronh90 on Thursday April 15, 2021 @03:19PM (#26824974)
Also as a regular fintech worker, I have to get internal approval from my employer for anything I do. Why can government representatives trade willy nilly without any oversight?
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by BurningFrog on Thursday April 15, 2021 @03:27PM (#26825074)
If you wrote the rules for yourself, they would probably be more lenient :)
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by icedchai on Thursday April 15, 2021 @03:51PM (#26825352)
Do you actually "have to"? How would they know if you don't? Basically, is it an honor system?
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by FabHK on Thursday April 15, 2021 @04:01PM (#26825451)
When I was in that situation, I had to disclose all brokerage accounts to my employer, and authorise the brokers to send copies of the account statements to the employer's compliance department.
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by psychlops on Thursday April 15, 2021 @04:35PM (#26825790)
20 years ago it used to be the honor system. Now all the records are connected, many make it a requirement of employment to move all accounts into the firm.
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by dmurray on Thursday April 15, 2021 @05:50PM (#26826582)
Also, it's mandated by the SEC. There are obligations on you, your employer, and (if your broker is in the US) your broker to ask you, and to inform each other.

So it's kind of on the honour system - your broker probably won't ask you for payslips proving you don't work in the industry - but a lot of people are incentivized not to let it happen.

Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by somethoughts on Thursday April 15, 2021 @02:26PM (#26824344)
That's true too! Finance sites like Marketwatch and Yahoo have insider transaction logs for each company when you search their ticker symbol [1]. There should be a tab to view "US office holder and their immediate relatives" transaction log page as well listed for each ticker.

[1] https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/AAPL/insider-transactions/

Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by pessimizer on Thursday April 15, 2021 @04:38PM (#26825840)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STOCK_Act#Amendment

When the public was angry, Congress passed the STOCK act. After the news cycle was over, they repealed disclosure unanimously.

Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by djrogers on Thursday April 15, 2021 @04:47PM (#26825920)
Disclosure still applies for Congress (and POTUS/VP), it was repealed for 28k other gov't employees.

Also, it's mandated 45 days after trades - not in advance as many here are calling for.

Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by pessimizer on Thursday April 15, 2021 @05:25PM (#26826308)
Not being specific enough made my comment misleading.

"The amendment also eliminated the requirement for the creation of searchable, sortable database of information in reports, and the requirement that reports be done in electronic format, rather than on paper."

Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by throwawaygh on Thursday April 15, 2021 @02:20PM (#26824267)
Why not just prohibit members of Congress of owning stock? They are some of the most powerful people in the world. Why is it so much to ask that a Senator or especially Representative serving in the most powerful legislative body in the world just take a cash position for 2-6 years?
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by klyrs on Thursday April 15, 2021 @02:35PM (#26824459)
I fully agree, and I'd like to extend it to their families as well. But... you ask "why not" and the simple reason is that only they could enact such a law. And even when the laws are in place -- Trump ran roughshod over the foreign emoluments clause, and there were zero consequences. Why would the richest and most powerful Democrats set such a precedent, only to have it turned around when they're in power and stand to profit?
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by ummonk on Thursday April 15, 2021 @09:09PM (#26828163)
Are you advocating that if a relative of mine runs for office and is elected (whether I supported their candidacy or not), I should be prohibited from owning stock?
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by alexanderdmitri on Thursday April 15, 2021 @11:41PM (#26829181)
It could work the other way around, ie if your close relations have stock that may affect your governing decisions and they refuse to commit to re-investing more generally in the event of your election, then you are prohibited from running for office.

Obviously there would be complications, but are you advocating society shouldn't strive to clearly separate governance of the public from private, conflicting pecuniary interests? I can't tell if you're dismissing the problem or saying there's a better solution ...

Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by klyrs on Friday April 16, 2021 @11:25AM (#26835017)
I'm mostly thinking of spouses, parents and children, and I think that a blind trust should probably suffice (you could own stock, just not have direct control over it).
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by dcist on Friday April 16, 2021 @12:09PM (#26835687)
The rule sounds fair for direct family members (wife, husband, children under 18, etc.).
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by somethoughts on Thursday April 15, 2021 @03:26PM (#26825060)
Yes - it definitely seems like it should be more or a "let's hope we can see both" type thing rather than an "either or type" thing. I think publicizing existing holdings is huge in that it can be done based on existing data sets as unusualwhale has shown and it is something that "we the people" can do, today - perhaps just by sharing this article.

Eradicating politicians doing insider trading is a much longer slog that we are mostly just hoping "those with the power" will enact against their own self interests.

Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by godelski on Thursday April 15, 2021 @04:42PM (#26825875)
Because investments are still a great way to hold your savings. The problem here isn't that they have investments (e.g. a 401k), it is that they are acting on insider information. Which is illegal to everyone else. At _minimum_ they should be held to the same standards. Though I think most people agree that they should be held to _higher_ standards, which gives suggestions like a blind trust. And obviously strict rules of if they break the blind part that they get jail time.
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by dan-robertson on Thursday April 15, 2021 @04:56PM (#26826009)
It’s not insider information. You might consider it material non-public information, which you can’t trade on in Europe, but in the US insider trading has a much more narrow definition: roughly it has to come from the insiders of the company. If your friend at Microsoft tells you that they won some massive contract, you can’t trade on it. If you overhear that news in a café, you can. If your friend at the government tells you they’re going to agree on a big contract with Microsoft, I don’t know if you’d be allowed or not but if you weren’t allowed I don’t think it would be insider trading.

Anyway, that obviously isn’t legal advice. And I agree that people should expect legislators to act with high integrity, but that’s not really how they vote.

Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by BurningFrog on Thursday April 15, 2021 @05:55PM (#26826637)
Honest question: If I work at Microsoft and I know we'll launch a product that will kill competitor X, am I allowed to short the X stock?

That more analogous to the politician trading. They do have inside information, but it's not from inside the company they're trading.

Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by iudqnolq on Friday April 16, 2021 @11:44AM (#26835286)
No, because that would be considered "stealing" from Microsoft. (I think it's a stupid way to define it.)
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by godelski on Thursday April 15, 2021 @08:17PM (#26827806)
Thanks! I actually appreciate the nuanced correction. I used insider trading as the term not specifically because the information was non-public but that it feels like they have inside knowledge since they are able to directly affect the markets. Maybe there is a better term for this? I don't think this still falls under what you said.
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by echaozh on Friday April 16, 2021 @05:08AM (#26831447)
Market manipulation?
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by throwawaygh on Saturday April 17, 2021 @12:50AM (#26841653)
Again, they are serving in the most powerful legislative body on earth. Putting retirement savings on hold is an extraordinarily small request given the amount of power that even the lowest-ranking Senator yields.
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by efitz on Thursday April 15, 2021 @03:09PM (#26824865)
I oppose this idea simply because most people’s’ retirement is held in investments now; I even think that congressional pensions have been dialed way back IIRC. I much prefer the “notify publicly well in advance” approach.
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by xienze on Thursday April 15, 2021 @03:34PM (#26825150)
> Why is it so much to ask that a Senator or especially Representative serving in the most powerful legislative body in the world just take a cash position for 2-6 years?

I agree in principle, but a lot of these people literally serve until they drop dead, which is a different problem with congress. Might be a bit much to tell someone not to invest for 40+ years.

Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by egypturnash on Thursday April 15, 2021 @09:08PM (#26828154)
I submit that this would kind of help stop the "sit in the same position until death" problem.
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by diebeforei485 on Thursday April 15, 2021 @02:23PM (#26824311)
I agree. Their wealth should be in a blind trust (unless they run the company or farm or whatever).
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by frankfrankfrank on Thursday April 15, 2021 @02:33PM (#26824438)
I am not at all opposed to this strategy either, but as you seem to imply, it would really need to be hardened against other corruption and schemes like that the blind trust has to be run by the same government office.

It is why I like the fact that they just have to announce their stock trades ahead of time, it still allows them autonomy, but also there is no sense in front running them if they are not trading on insider knowledge. Their performance should essentially be in line with the market, not like Mr. Gottheimer that seems to have tripled his net worth in FY2020.

Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by FabHK on Thursday April 15, 2021 @04:04PM (#26825477)
I think it would be perfectly fine to let them have their money in broad index fund, or maybe an actively managed fund which should also be open to every citizen. Allow withdrawals etc. only once a month or so to avoid market timing.
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by cpwright on Thursday April 15, 2021 @04:26PM (#26825689)
That is bad policy. There is a segment of middle/upper class Americans who own stock; anyone with a retirement plan that funds it. Forcing middle/upper class legislatures into a cash position instead of stocks would make them less, not more connected to similarly placed people. If they can't own stock does that mean they'll just instead invest in real estate which can be even more conflicted?

Of course, if they held widely diversified Index funds there would be fewer conflicts - but not zero as evidenced by legislators trading around COVID briefings.

Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by jkepler on Thursday April 15, 2021 @03:33PM (#26825137)
I think they're too aware that with real dollar inflation probably running at least 10% per year (per Michael Saylor), they'd loose too much value for them to consent to holding only cash for 2 to 6 years. For every $100K they had, they'd end up holding something near $81K down to $53K in real purchasing power... and that's assuming they were content to only stay in power one term.
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by coltsfan on Thursday April 15, 2021 @03:51PM (#26825353)
that's exactly the point. it's almost a game for rich people to pump up their legacies or because they're just bored. you want them gone. When they are gone, there will be plenty of people left that choose never to buy another stock again for the rest of their lives. No law, just a personal code. Because the influence and power obviously last after you leave office. Monks and samurai can exist. Then so can a congressional Bushido. You just have to stop voting for people who think about their stocks all day while sitting at meetings.
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by BurningFrog on Thursday April 15, 2021 @05:56PM (#26826645)
Too harsh. A blind trust would be quite enough.
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by somethoughts on Thursday April 15, 2021 @02:07PM (#26824095)
Yes - in addition - just have documentation sites like unusual whales which track the trades, holdings and profits of politicians - create infographics prior to every election and distribute them to existing voter information/polling prediction sites like real clear politics.

Politicians already long on certain stocks can also profit from legislation that they are passing. Being privy to insider info which leads to continuing to stay long a stock is an advantage that wouldn't be detected by just sharing recent trades.

In addition to trying to eradicate insider trading - just shedding light on existing holdings by US office holders will have a huge cleansing effect that will go a long way to showing potential biases/conflicts of interest.

Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by mikepurvis on Thursday April 15, 2021 @03:23PM (#26825012)
I would love to believe that would make a difference, but in a hyperpartisan world where many vote based on a handful of ideological allegiances, how many would seriously be moved to change sides over something as small as a little corruption? Or is this something that would be more at the primary level, where it really is more about personality and personal qualities than party?

In any case, the Trump movement's whole response to this kind of thing was a combination of denial and "lol everyone does it", and it seems like that was enough for many in that camp.

Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by rocqua on Thursday April 15, 2021 @04:15PM (#26825584)
There are still voters on the fence / differences in voter turn-out that mean politicians worry about scandal. The main effect is that these politicians will probably be replaced by different ones from the same party. Moreover, other politicians, hoping not to be replaced, might stop doing blatant insider trading.
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by somethoughts on Thursday April 15, 2021 @04:54PM (#26825998)
Or is this something that would be more at the primary level, where it really is more about personality and personal qualities than party?

>> For sure there are many factors that influence someone's vote. I think you're right - its more likely to cause leadership rotation within the parties where the rest of the factors are more similar (i.e. stance on gun rights, etc.). The challenge today is that incumbent politicians within their own party tend to have great name recognition among voters - but are more likely to be in the pockets of corporations. This would enable challengers within the party to potentially have an issue they can highlight.

"lol everyone does it"

>> And perhaps articles prove in a data science-y way that perhaps this is true - many politicians are doing it.

Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by ed_balls on Thursday April 15, 2021 @04:34PM (#26825779)
Their children or other family would do the deals.
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by jokethrowaway on Thursday April 15, 2021 @10:07PM (#26828560)
There is always a way to circumvent security systems.

The only practical solution is having less centralisation of power, so no-one can easily manipulate the market.

It's not just Nancy Pelosi, most people in her position would do that. The position of power corrupts people.

Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by toss1 on Thursday April 15, 2021 @03:49PM (#26825318)
Or perhaps better yet, simply make all trades public in real-time.

Trades could be scrutinized for insider trading by both the SEC and independent traders/firms, just as there are independent services scrutinizing the crypto blockchains.

Insider trading could then even plausibly be legalized by eliminating the advantage of insider trading (it'd have to be based on a lot of study of the data). If we (or other funds) can setup triggers to act on the trades of insiders as soon as they hit the wire, the market will move against them, and we can also share arguably the same advantage by doing so.

Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by gibolt on Thursday April 15, 2021 @04:04PM (#26825481)
That doesn't work. If they are aware of a huge non-public deal, the market may react based on their trade, but not nearly as much as when the deal goes public.
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by psychlops on Thursday April 15, 2021 @04:47PM (#26825926)
It would help. There are already funds that track the money of politicians and invest accordingly. If they submitted a large options trade, the funds would front run them and take away much of the profit.
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by m463 on Thursday April 15, 2021 @02:40PM (#26824518)
If I was a foreign government, I would just monitor these announcements and impoverish the US politicians.
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by BurningFrog on Thursday April 15, 2021 @05:59PM (#26826672)
If I was a foreign government, I would want to enrich US politicians, so they became favorable to my causes.
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by gowld on Thursday April 15, 2021 @02:43PM (#26824561)
Good. That will discourage them from manipulating the market.

No need for foreign government -- the whole world can do it.

Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by smt88 on Thursday April 15, 2021 @01:42PM (#26823709)
I think it's easy to rephrase this as follows:

People should not be able to make bets on matters over which they secretly control the outcome.

That means any federal official should have their investments behind a blind trust of some sort, no exceptions.

Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by paulryanrogers on Thursday April 15, 2021 @01:59PM (#26823989)
Isn't this already an illegal conflict of interest?

Are federal representatives immune?

Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by infinite8s on Thursday April 15, 2021 @02:25PM (#26824337)
Congress excluded itself from insider-trading laws. Convenient, eh?
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by _underfl0w_ on Thursday April 15, 2021 @03:34PM (#26825142)
Can anyone cite a source for this? I don't doubt the legitimacy, but would like to know more about it.
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by vageli on Thursday April 15, 2021 @03:41PM (#26825243)
It doesn't seem to be true any longer with the STOCK act.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STOCK_Act

Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by busymom0 on Thursday April 15, 2021 @08:29PM (#26827887)
It was repealed silently and unimanously in 2013:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZINKG-gPT0

Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by Jommi on Thursday April 15, 2021 @01:58PM (#26823960)
Edit it to "secret bets" or even "non publicly announced".
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by smt88 on Thursday April 15, 2021 @03:27PM (#26825066)
I'd have to think it through more, but my gut says that I don't care if the bet is secret. Although I would separately support a law that all elected officials must have extreme transparency into their finances.

I think people should give up all of their right to privacy (when it comes to business, finances, travel, and even conversations) when they acquire a large amount of power. In my head, a US senator would have that much power and that little privacy, whereas a US representative in the House would not.

Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by nitrogen on Thursday April 15, 2021 @01:45PM (#26823762)
We only need to find 0.00013% of the US population

Maybe we should use sortition then instead of elections? What could be more democratic than random average people (meeting some criteria) taking a turn at the wheel?

Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by slowmovintarget on Thursday April 15, 2021 @02:17PM (#26824218)
A significant percentage of random average people have no practical understanding of economics, and no ability to think of consequences to policy.

Granted, neither do a significant percentage of the currently serving congress if current policy is anything to go by.

Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by kelnos on Thursday April 15, 2021 @04:19PM (#26825624)
> Granted, neither do a significant percentage of the currently serving congress if current policy is anything to go by.

I think they understand just fine, most of the time, but are more interested in enriching themselves and their cronies than looking out for their constituents or the health of the system as a whole.

Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by voldacar on Thursday April 15, 2021 @03:49PM (#26825323)
> A significant percentage of random average people have no practical understanding of economics, and no ability to think of consequences to policy.

unfortunately, this is also true of our elected officials

Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by Red_Leaves_Flyy on Thursday April 15, 2021 @02:52PM (#26824690)
What about both?

Take the existing system and have the house and Senate argue every official act to the sortition for a vote. How would this be worse than the current crony capitalism we suffer under?

Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by rocqua on Thursday April 15, 2021 @04:22PM (#26825657)
Perhaps have a third stage (after the senate) that is the sortition that has to approve a bill.
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by frankfrankfrank on Thursday April 15, 2021 @02:51PM (#26824669)
Regardless of whether one may like the initial selection criteria or not, what you describe is precisely why the country (USA) was supposed to be led by land owning free white men. The assumption being that people that fit that criteria, plausibly possessed a requisite initial selection criteria set of skills and knowledge that would constitute the pool of best qualified people to run a government in the common interest. From that pool of people their peers would further select amongst each other using those very same abilities, knowledge, skills, and capacities to further choose the utmost best person to lead.

I realize that just saying that may cause some consternation among some, but it is objectively the best selection system one could possibly devise, for any people anywhere, regardless of whether people like it or not.

It's not even a selection system that is not used all over the place from choices within your family where there are certain prerequisites like being an adult or a parent or having to be a member of the union in order to vote on union matters, or having achieved certain certifications and qualifications before you can make decisions about building a highway bridge.

It is and has not been a net benefit to any of us that "democracy" was first imposed and then expanded when the founders of the USA were very explicit about the fact that democracy was a recipe for disaster and would invariably cause destruction … as it has. Personally, I would very much have been ok with benefitting from properly qualified people making decision for me that I have no competent capacity to make for myself, rather than having lived in a society where everyone thinks they are equally smart and competent and my vote counts the same as some fool who does not know that a week is seven days (something I heard someone in her early 20s say yesterday. She thought the week excludes the weekend)

Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by spoonjim on Thursday April 15, 2021 @03:49PM (#26825319)
The destruction to the Founder's political vision didn't come from expanding the franchise, it came direct democracy. The idea was explicitly that the average voter was completely unqualified to choose the President, and that the only question the voter would be asked is: "Who in your town should make decisions for you?" That person would go to your state legislature, which would vote for your state's electors, who would go and deliberatively decide the President. With the 17th Amendment and binding primary elections we threw out that wisdom.
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by _underfl0w_ on Thursday April 15, 2021 @03:37PM (#26825197)
> but it is objectively the best selection system one could possibly devise

Your determination of objectivity seems a little... subjective.

Maybe this was objectively best at the time but at minimum the race part seems to no longer be true.

Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by rocqua on Thursday April 15, 2021 @04:24PM (#26825673)
> Regardless of whether one may like the initial selection criteria or not, what you describe is precisely why the country (USA) was supposed to be led by land owning free white men.

> I realize that just saying that may cause some consternation among some, but it is objectively the best selection system one could possibly devise

Combining these two statements suggests that you would advocate for white supremacy. Is that a correct deduction of mine? I would rather ask than just jump to conclusions.

Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by dysrend on Thursday April 15, 2021 @03:33PM (#26825131)
Democracy≠republic

The career politicians, intelligencia, and c-suite technocrats have been running shit for the past half century or more - you see where it's gotten us, to the ruin you describe.

Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by jacques_chester on Thursday April 15, 2021 @08:14PM (#26827774)
The self-same perfect and wise and gosh-darn handsome founders included an amendment mechanism. You might like to take your complaint up with them.
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by rootusrootus on Thursday April 15, 2021 @01:51PM (#26823859)
I agree, I have long thought sortition might be the right answer. Right along with leveraging modern technology to reset our representative-to-citizen ratio to something like the constitution originally prescribed.
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by rocqua on Thursday April 15, 2021 @04:26PM (#26825692)
The thing is, the last few times I recall when some have tried more direct democracy (Brexit, a few referenda in europe, california ballot measures) it seems to lead to decisions that seem rather sub-optimal. I am not sure the random citizen might actually be better at governing that a professional politician.
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by rootusrootus on Thursday April 15, 2021 @07:39PM (#26827526)
I think that is a completely fair assumption, you may be right. Partly why I think we should dramatically increase the numbers of representatives is to mitigate this problem somewhat. On average, I think a lot of regular citizens would do just fine. So we limit the damage by limiting the amount of power a single vote has.

It's kind of the same reasoning I use for extending the vote to children. In a country of 330 million, each individual vote is nearly meaningless on it's own so I figure the risk is much lower than the benefit of getting people involved at a younger age in a future that they should care deeply about. HN did not collectively appreciate this suggestion when I made it, however :).

Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by sneeze-slayer on Thursday April 15, 2021 @02:57PM (#26824732)
Hah, Philip K. Dick explored this a bit in "Solar Lottery." In the book it's a bit absurd, but still an interesting take on a "randomized" government.
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by wpietri on Friday April 16, 2021 @09:00AM (#26833318)
The problem here is that they then will have do depend even more on others than people who choose the job do, which shifts the problem one ring out. So this will give more influence to lobbyists, who know their areas well and are experts in talking people into things. There's also the problem of staff. Politicians tend to bring key staff along with as they rise. But where will randomly selected legislators find a half-dozen people with the necessary knowledge and skills?
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by dkarl on Thursday April 15, 2021 @06:55PM (#26827208)
I think random people would either be shallow and selfish about it or be so intimidated by their responsibilities that they would be at the mercy of knowledgable advisors chosen from the same small class of people who run the government now.
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by snarf21 on Thursday April 15, 2021 @04:31PM (#26825751)
I agree that ALL government employees, their spouses and companies should own no individual stocks until they leave office/job. However, the politicians are just the tip of the iceberg in regards to the rigged game of Wall Street. We have bigger fish to fry but no one seems to like fish anymore.
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by hyperpape on Thursday April 15, 2021 @04:42PM (#26825873)
I agree in spirit, but this is overbroad. The various branches of government employ millions of people. A cop, or VHA nurse, or my friend who works a non-managerial role at the EPA can own stock. It's the decision-makers who were should be concerned about. That group extends beyond congress, but doesn't contain literally every government employee.
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by delusional on Thursday April 15, 2021 @04:42PM (#26825879)
I don't think normal middle class government workers owning stocks is a real problem. I get where you're coming from (technically they could have inside information), but it's not nearly as impaction as the elected officials having very large swings hinge on their own policies.
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by Taylor_OD on Thursday April 15, 2021 @04:28PM (#26825722)
If you took away the politicians way of getting rich then what motivation would people have to be politicians? /s
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by unethical_ban on Thursday April 15, 2021 @04:34PM (#26825781)
I'm thinking of running for city council because I actually give a shit about civil service, the importance of good government, and I think I'm a better option than some of the absolute nutcases even running for mayor in my city.

Some people actually care.

Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by Taylor_OD on Thursday April 15, 2021 @09:22PM (#26828260)
That's awesome. I voted for a person for Mayor of Chicago last year who I know cared. They got ~1000 votes.
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by BurningFrog on Thursday April 15, 2021 @06:05PM (#26826737)
Power!

I don't like this corruption, but there are many worse things our rulers could do.

Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by contradistinct on Friday April 16, 2021 @12:53PM (#26836281)
Politicians should take a vow of poverty, agreeing to never spend more in a year than the average American. Great way to weed out all of the sharks and keep only the people who actually care and want to lead the country in the right direction, whatever that takes.
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by jjordan on Thursday April 15, 2021 @11:47PM (#26829210)
The nature of politics tends to attract the very kind of people that you don't want in politics.
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by Avalaxy on Thursday April 15, 2021 @04:25PM (#26825685)
Would it really help? You can't restrict their complete social circles as well. All it takes is 1 willing friend who will happily accept your stock tips ahead of large announcements and who's willing to give you a share of the profits in return.
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by wpietri on Friday April 16, 2021 @12:17PM (#26835784)
In practice, I agree we need more. In particular, I think requiring that their finances be completely transparent the rest of their lives would be a huge step forward.
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by alkonaut on Thursday April 15, 2021 @05:41PM (#26826484)
That’s true for all insider trading yet we at least attempt to limit that.
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by menomatter on Sunday April 18, 2021 @07:47AM (#26851659)
Are these the rules when you work for a bank to avoid the appearance of conflict of interest? How come congress members don't have similar rules
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by xwolfi on Thursday April 15, 2021 @07:38PM (#26827523)
I work in a bank, at a low level. These trades would have gotten me fired.
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by throwaway5752 on Thursday April 15, 2021 @01:52PM (#26823865)
I speak for a lot of people that while I agree with you in principle, the sudden interest in this idea in Republican circles after the prior administration's absolute mockery of conflict of interest and self-dealing laws seems hypocritical.
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by munk-a on Thursday April 15, 2021 @01:55PM (#26823904)
Laws need to come into force sometime - and as long as we're not going to get a ping-pong law that's repealed as soon as republicans get into power then I don't mind it happening while democrats hold the torch. I am well aware of the hypocrisy some folks show on this topic but, honestly, it's a good law no matter who is in power and if we're just trying to be petty we won't get anything done.
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by jb775 on Thursday April 15, 2021 @03:36PM (#26825182)
Can you provide any sources for your claims that prove Trump administration personnel directly profited off any supposed self dealings? Or are you just pulling this out of your ass bc you are a lib? Also, who else specifically do you "speak for"?

This article isn't even about self-serving decisions that may benefit politicians down the road...it's about politicians who are actively using politician-privy inside information for short term profit at the expense of their constituents. But hey let's keep crying about orange man bad!

Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by Swenrekcah on Thursday April 15, 2021 @04:04PM (#26825471)
The “orange man” was bad.

This is getting tired. If you are interested in his cronies’ self dealings just look it up. They did all of these things and more but also did them more explicitly. Which is a bit more honest in a way I guess?

But the worst part about 2017-2020 was the way he cozied up to enemies of democracy, undermined democracy himself and made a point of sowing and igniting division.

Back to the article, this behaviour is despicable and should be punished for everyone, D or R.

Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by jb775 on Thursday April 15, 2021 @05:48PM (#26826563)
> just look it up. They did all of these things and more

Can you provide a single example with a source that proves this? And please provide an example of how he "undermined democracy". Sounds like you watch a lot of CNN.

I agree it should be punished equally not depending on D or R.

Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by Swenrekcah on Thursday April 15, 2021 @06:25PM (#26826926)
Sure, here’s one for the former (link below) and for the second you might remember the refusal to accept the election results and months of egging his supporters on, culminating in an attack on the US Capitol and the deaths of 4 or more people.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/10/10/us/trump-prop...

Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by wpietri on Friday April 16, 2021 @09:05AM (#26833366)
Why don't you tell us what you Googled for without being able to find anything.
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by sneak on Thursday April 15, 2021 @01:40PM (#26823690)
I think this presupposes the lie that the government is by, of, or for the (majority of the) people.

This is a closed system, and most are not allowed anywhere near the control room.

It, including these trades, is working as intended.

Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by smt88 on Thursday April 15, 2021 @01:43PM (#26823729)
The US is explicitly not about the majority. The Senate and Presidency are both anti-democratic institions where land controls votes.
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by munk-a on Thursday April 15, 2021 @01:58PM (#26823965)
> It, including these trades, is working as intended.

You can view the US in a lot of cynical ways but it was not created as a vehicle to allow the wealthy to continue to gain wealth at the expense of the poor. Insider trading between congressmen using their posts to fleece the public was never an intent of the government.

Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by jessaustin on Thursday April 15, 2021 @02:37PM (#26824484)
That is precisely the reason that Madison and his collaborators wrote the constitution (with debates kept secret from the public). The nation already had popular rule and a federal organization in 1781. The problem for the rich was that state legislatures kept helping out the majority of their voters, changing various rules about repayment of debts and so on. The constitution put an end to all that, as it was intended to do.
Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by jhallenworld on Thursday April 15, 2021 @02:21PM (#26824286)
It was at least created for them to at least preserve their wealth. In the debates leading up the creation of the Senate, here is a typical argument:

"...our government ought to secure the permanent interests of the country against innovation. Landholders ought to have a share in the government, to support these invaluable interests and to balance and check the other. They ought to be so constituted as to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority. The senate, therefore, ought to be this body; and to answer these purposes, they ought to have permanency and stability. Various have been the propositions; but my opinion is, the longer they continue in office, the better will these views be answered"

https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Madison/01-10-02-004...

Re:Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress by triceratops on Thursday April 15, 2021 @03:58PM (#26825426)
> it was not created as a vehicle to allow the wealthy to continue to gain wealth at the expense of the poor

I mean the American revolution was spearheaded by wealthy land and slave owners who were tired of taxes.