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Re:A top-grossing scam on the App Store by simonh on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @03:36PM (#26797909)
How would the security model work with side loaded apps. How would they get access to OS resources, services and share data with other apps, e.g through the clipboard? Who would verify them against malware, or ensure they didn’t violate security constraints? It’s not like Apple could disavow all responsibility for any data leaked from the system, a lot of users simply wouldn’t see it that way.

There’s a lot wrong with the current state of apps in the App Store, but right now at least I know who’s job it is to get it fixed.

Re:A top-grossing scam on the App Store by bogwog on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @03:53PM (#26798210)
> How would they get access to OS resources, services and share data with other apps, e.g through the clipboard?

Through the same system APIs that exist right now. Why would that change?

> Who would verify them against malware

The distributor of the app, most likely. If you downloaded a game though Steam for iOS or whatever, and it had malware, that's Valve's fault.

If you went to virus.com and downloaded a virus, that's your problem.

> or ensure they didn’t violate security constraints?

You mean ensure they don't violate one of the operating system's security protections? That's called finding an exploit, and it's the developer of the operating system's responsibility. Exploits for iOS exist today, and they'll continue to exist in the future.

> It’s not like Apple could disavow all responsibility for any data leaked from the system, a lot of users simply wouldn’t see it that way

Of course not. A "leak" due to an exploit/vulnerability in iOS that Apple failed to patch would be their fault.

A third party app leaking personal info online would be the third party developer's fault. People didn't get pissed at Apple when Facebook leaked all that data a ~week ago.

> There’s a lot wrong with the current state of apps in the App Store, but right now at least I know who’s job it is to get it fixed.

It's their job to get it fixed. It's been their job for over 13 years, and they've failed at it again and again. It's about time they're fired.

Re:A top-grossing scam on the App Store by egocentric on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @03:47PM (#26798102)
“Sideloading Apps Would ‘Break’ the Security and Privacy of iPhone”, said Tim Cook.

But instead of gaslighting us, Apple could let us sideload notarized apps. This means:

- Automated scan for malware

- Remote kill switch, just in case

They already do this for macOS [1]:

> “Notarization is not App Review. The Apple notary service is an automated system that scans your software for malicious content, checks for code-signing issues, and returns the results to you quickly.”

They could give users a choice, much like they're doing with the new App Tracking Transparency prompt. But when pressed on why Apple should have control, Cook said "Somebody has to."

That's… not a very convincing argument.

[1]: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/xcode/notarizing_m...

Re:A top-grossing scam on the App Store by Apocryphon on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @03:51PM (#26798170)
Yeah, the whole "there is no alternative to the App Store" argument completely falls apart in the face of the existence of the Mac, and how the Mac isn't constrained by the Mac App Store.
Re:A top-grossing scam on the App Store by zepto on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @08:51PM (#26801652)
Obviously not, because the Mac has only ever had minor sales relative to the PC even, and minuscule compared to iOS.

It’s never been a serious target.

Re:A top-grossing scam on the App Store by Apocryphon on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @09:27PM (#26801919)
Your Apple bashing is really quite tiresome. Macs are serious machines and have grown in leaps and bounds over the past two decades. Are you seriously saying the de facto development platform for Silicon Valley startups, as well as the home for Apple Silicon, is no longer a “serious target”? No need to shill for Windows here.
Re:A top-grossing scam on the App Store by zepto on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @11:03PM (#26802476)
It’s not a serious target for App Store scams, or scam software in general, because the user base is tiny compared to iOS.

I think you know this.

Re:A top-grossing scam on the App Store by Apocryphon on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @11:56PM (#26802788)
Re:A top-grossing scam on the App Store by zepto on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @10:57AM (#26808001)
And ransomware and botnets too: https://www.avg.com/en/signal/mac-ransomware-remove-protect

Fortunately iOS users don’t have those problems because of the security model that you are so quick to dismiss.

Re:A top-grossing scam on the App Store by zepto on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @02:35PM (#26811163)
As anyone who clicks on those links can see, those are neither Ransomware nor Botnets, so it’s not obvious what point you are trying to make.

Hard to see how you think such links support your argument for dismissing the security model.

Also of note - the central App Store was used to fix these problems.

Re:A top-grossing scam on the App Store by Apocryphon on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @06:32PM (#26813920)
Truth be told, I find nothing wrong with the central App Store security model, merely that the status quo is insufficient. They should either ramp up enforcement on the store drastically, and/or open up the platform to third party stores, and thus competition, for other stores to attempt better ways at enforcing security and user privacy.

I do not view opening up the platform to third party stores or sideloading to be an excessive security risk, because having studied iOS's security model, it seems to be reasonably hardened (at least compared to Android) and I believe that Apple can manage the existence of other app sources well enough to prevent them from becoming significant malware vectors. The fact that those malware links are neither ransomware nor botnets proves how inherently secure iOS is, and thus protections are built into the operating system level, thus making the existence of third party stores irrelevant to its security.

Re:A top-grossing scam on the App Store by zepto on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @07:50PM (#26814586)
> They should either ramp up enforcement on the store drastically,

This, I agree with.

> and/or open up the platform to third party stores, and thus competition

This I disagree with. As stated elsewhere, I simply don’t think security will be the basis for such competition because it relies on end users to be able to make that a priority over just running the apps they want.

I think if Apple is unable to maintain the security of the platform, competition is the answer, but in the form of other platforms, not Apple being forced to allow alternative stores.

Re:A top-grossing scam on the App Store by ksec on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @02:01AM (#26803457)
> because the user base is tiny compared to iOS.

One Tenth. Or 100M+ User with lots of room to grow.

I wouldn't use tiny to describe it, even in comparative sense.

Re:A top-grossing scam on the App Store by pentae on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @05:21AM (#26804734)
Especially considering the value of the userbase and the fact theres millions of PC's propping up 'marketshare' that aren't even being used as personal computing devices (retail displays/signage, corporate/government pc's)
Re:A top-grossing scam on the App Store by zepto on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @10:56AM (#26807984)
If you are executing a scam why on earth would you pick the market that is one tenth the size?
Re:A top-grossing scam on the App Store by ksec on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @11:54AM (#26808812)
>If you are executing a scam why on earth would you pick the market that is one tenth the size?

Because that user base are worth more than per user than the others?

Re:A top-grossing scam on the App Store by zepto on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @11:59AM (#26808901)
Paying for expensive apps is one thing, falling for scams is another.
Re:A top-grossing scam on the App Store by abstract_put on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @10:33PM (#26802320)
Would this be significantly different than desktop apps? It seems like we have decades of experience solving (and failing) to solve this in the desktop world.