News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:1Password Secrets Automation by xoa on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @01:51PM (#26796289)
While this looks interesting, I'll admit I feel like there's been a bit of drift from their bread and butter over the years since they launched their cloud thing and started pushing hard towards a subscription model. I chose them long ago specifically over options like LastPass because I liked having a rich application without internet dependency and their attention to detail and features there, but it's been a while since it feels like it got major new improvements vs the site. For example, while macOS and Windows have supported smart cards and security tokens like YubiKeys forever now, and I use them to login, unlock, authorize sudo/SSH, etc every day, 1Password still has no support. There are things that can now only be done through the web interface, like finer grained control over permissions for shared vaults, and some of those are also nastily locked away behind more expensive subscriptions. I think everything should be manageable through the application, without ever visiting the site. Duplicate items across vaults remain completely manually managed, when automating stuff like that is kind of the purpose of a password manager. Etc. Heck, even within their own subscription service I think they're missing a trick by not having more powerful/flexible organization(including families) and inter-organizational capabilities.

I still think 1Password is the best option for most people. I specifically want my non-technical family and friends to use password managers too as long as its necessary, and having some multiperson capability is also key to that. I can't say though that I feel like the move to subs has been a huge win in terms of development.

Granted, I'm a little down on the whole field which colors things a bit. Ultimately underlying my feelings is a touch of bitterness that their entire industry even exists. Passwords and password managers are mostly recreating public key auth really, really badly and it stinks. Passwords and other symmetric tokens by definition should never be shared. A website being hacked should never affect me in the slightest, in the same way that me getting hacked doesn't somehow suddenly mean attackers now own Debian/Apple/FreeBSD/Microsoft. Everywhere should just have public keys. We've had the tech for decades and sufficient crypto speed on client systems since at least AES-NI. What's been missing has been glue and effort. It's frustrating every time a hack happens. We shouldn't have to care! Sigh.

Re:1Password Secrets Automation by fastball on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @01:56PM (#26796383)
Very much agree.

My pet peeve at the moment is this[1], where they removed a feature I very much like (TouchID in the standalone browser extension) and still have yet to replace that functionality despite many promises that it is just around the corner. It was removed in August 2020.

Definitely feel like they've lost sight of why people chose them in the first place, and stuff like this is certainly not helping assuage my concerns.

[1] https://1password.community/discussion/115228/temporarily-re...

Re:1Password Secrets Automation by pudgeball on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @04:21PM (#26798688)
We very much agree that this is a pain point for those with the extension. This feature brought users (and also all our developers who rebuild... often...) a huge smile and productivity boost, so removing it was not easy. We had some fundamental issues that affected the way this feature worked which pushed us to rework it. We wanted to share more news[1] once we had some releases in the wild which recently happened.

With a recent release[2] of 1Password for Linux and the 1Password extension, the two can now communicate. Allowing you to use biometrics to unlock the extension and keep it unlocked throughout your browsing sessions.

While this news doesn't unlock this ability right away for yourself (because referencing TouchID I assume means you're a Mac friend). We will be continuing to rollout over the coming months to Windows and Mac.

[1] https://1password.community/discussion/comment/591579/#Comme...

[2] https://1password.community/discussion/119609/1password-for-...

Re:1Password Secrets Automation by xoa on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @02:14PM (#26796632)
It's a fundamental concern I've always had with subscriptions for non-entertainment services or trivially fungible goods. I've become a big believer in business incentives and feedback loops for sustainable commercial relationships. Individual leadership and culture can stand against them to some extent for a time, but individuals move on and it seems that near inevitably over enough years organizations tend to track and/or drift according to their incentives and impactful feedback. In a traditional software upgrade model, the default is that they get no money unless they can convince people to upgrade each time. They make their money from overcoming that default, and if people choose not to upgrade that's the most core unignorable feedback for a business that something isn't right. It doesn't guarantee responsiveness or good choices, but it forces them to think about it. From a customer perspective, not paying means the status quo, they don't gain anything new but they lose nothing either.

But with subscriptions it gets inverted. Now for the customer failure to keep paying means losing existing functionality and/or having to expend additional resources (money and time) actively moving to something else. So rather then needing to be convinced to give the company more money, it's more that they need to be convinced not to.

There's a real difference between "a customer base that is very happy" and "a customer base that is merely not irritated enough yet to overcome the inherent energy hump and go looking for a new local minima" and I worry the subscription business model makes that easier to ignore. Not that companies can't in principle find out in other ways! They can do detailed customer polling and so on. But that requires active effort and expense by the company so the temptation will always be to ignore it and follow inertia. This doesn't require the slightest bit of active malice, just a break in feedback loops resulting in drift as a company starts pursuing things from its own tunnel vision. They then look and see the money keep pouring in, so what's the problem? The threat eventually becomes that if the energy barrier is overcome and the stampede begins it's too late. It's a shame to see happen to companies I really really like and have great visions that could be even better.

Re:1Password Secrets Automation by yoz-y on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @05:37PM (#26799665)
There is a rub to this too however. In a pay to upgrade model you are incentivised to stuff your application with features and also need to support old versions indefinitely if they have network components.

Granted in 1Pssword case, their classic app would not have stopped working without upgrades. And to my knowledge it should also still work? I have since switched to the subscription model but I have used the old paid app years after they have switched models.

Re:1Password Secrets Automation by kspacewalk2 on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @07:05PM (#26800638)
Using 1Password 6 standalone app here without issues. Dropbox integration still works, and that's all the "cloud" I need.
Re:1Password Secrets Automation by iamed2 on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @10:06PM (#26802169)
Same with me with 1Password 4 on Windows, via Dropbox as well
Re:1Password Secrets Automation by a-dub on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @03:21AM (#26804005)
these days if you choose not to upgrade you often lose support, and for security critical software it seems you want patches... so even if annual or biannual upgrades don't feel like a subscription, they kind of are... just with a longer interval between subscription payments and a slower cadence for feature delivery.

honestly i think these things are more about lock-in or perceived lock-in, or simply not wanting to waste precious time. even though it's actually fairly easy to jump between password managers, it's still a "migration" or another task where when one's time becomes scarce the thrill of a sundry task like redoing one's passwords is overshadowed by the laundry list of things one could do with their time instead. sure, it's nice to tend the garden, but how many other things would you rather spend an afternoon on that either develop skills, enhance life or recreate in one way or another.

Re:1Password Secrets Automation by bwoodruff on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @04:08PM (#26798467)
Hi! I work for 1Password. We have this functionality available in beta with our 1Password for Linux app. It will be available on Mac and Windows in the not-too-distant future, though I can't say more specifically when that will be.

[1] https://1password.community/discussion/comment/591579/#Comme...

Re:1Password Secrets Automation by phnofive on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @05:09PM (#26799359)
Can you explain why this was removed, and why it was re-introduced on a platform other than OS X (given that biometric identifiers have become standard in Apple hardware)?
Re:1Password Secrets Automation by jpgoldberg on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @03:10AM (#26803930)
To elaborate on what my colleague, Ben, said, we have been in the process moving to more common cross platform code.

A it more than a year ago we had

- 1Password for Mac and iOS written in Objective-C and Swift - 1Password for Android, written in Java - 1Password for Windows, written in C# - 1Password CLI, written in Go - 1Password web-app, in Typescript - Browser extension in Typescript

Introducing new features was an ever more difficult task. Even getting the behavior of things like password strength meters or generators behaving the same across these platforms was increasingly difficult. (Hint, they didn’t behave the same.)

So we have been taking the time to develop a common core of code that can be used everywhere. And this does take time. Writing the common modules is often relatively easy, but we have to get them to work with the platform specific code

Late 2019 was our first successful deployment of any such function, and that was the TOTP calculator. It was largely transparent to users, except for settling on which sorts of TOTP “quirks” we were going to follow. (TOTP standards are a mess, and different Authenticator apps deal with special cases differently. At least 1Password is now fully consistent with itself)

Over the past year, we’ve been plugging more such things into the apps. And it allows us to fix bugs more quickly as well ashen they are in the common code.

1Paaword for Linux is built on all the new/common code. So while it doesn’t have everything that the others do, it is also where you will see the née stuff that is coming.

This has been a huge effort, and the transition has some rough spots, but once we get there we will be able to move much more quickly in developing and refining features and behaviors.

Re:1Password Secrets Automation by phnofive on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @04:04AM (#26804297)
This is an excellent answer, thanks.

Reading between the lines a bit - biometric authentication was deprecated (from ‘for Mac’) as it was broken or at risk of breaking, and further dev on legacy code was moot due to the transition?

Re:1Password Secrets Automation by bwoodruff on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @03:36PM (#26811977)
Close: 1Password for Mac itself can still unlock using Touch ID on supported systems, it is just the integration between 1Password for Mac and the 1Password browser extension that is currently lacking. It is possible to use the 1Password Classic extension in order to have that functionality, but we're defaulting to the former now as there are so many other improvements you lose out on otherwise.
Re:1Password Secrets Automation by bwoodruff on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @07:55PM (#26801225)
It was removed because we needed to change directions on development and continuing to maintain it as well as build out the new implementation was untenable. It came out on Linux first because the Linux app was developed with it in mind, whereas on other platforms we were re-working existing systems to integrate with it. The former materialized quicker.

- Ben, 1Password

Re:1Password Secrets Automation by djrogers on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @03:53PM (#26798200)
Yeah, definitely taking them longer to get this back than they’d planned. Fortunately the ‘classic’ extension for chrome still exists and works.
Re:1Password Secrets Automation by lstamour on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @03:59PM (#26798304)
Link: https://support.1password.com/cs/1password-classic-extension...

I prefer the above classic extensions for switching between Chrome, Safari, Firefox and Edge all day and not having to sign in more than once. Plus the better desktop app integration, including the ability to opt-out of cloud storage of passwords.

Re:1Password Secrets Automation by cpuguy83 on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @09:56AM (#26807116)
I use Touch ID to unlock 1P in Safari regularly every day. What are you saying isn't working?
Re:1Password Secrets Automation by 1cvmask on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @02:12PM (#26796614)
Did you ever look at a password manager like saas pass that does not need a desktop app and the browser extension is a full blown app that is protected by 2fa?
Re:1Password Secrets Automation by rectang on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @02:24PM (#26796778)
> I specifically want my non-technical family and friends to use password managers

I consider it a victory if I can get non-techies to use their browser's facilities to store passwords, and then to choose reasonably long passwords and avoid reuse.

(I use `pass`, myself.)

Re:1Password Secrets Automation by fiddlerwoaroof on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @03:15PM (#26797584)
I use a password manager but, as a mostly-Apple user, I see very little reason not to just use iCloud Keychain: the UX of Apple’s solution is significantly better than all the alternatives because I don’t have to remember yet another password/mfa token to type in every once in a while.
Re:1Password Secrets Automation by 8fingerlouie on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @03:58PM (#26798290)
> I use a password manager but, as a mostly-Apple user, I see very little reason not to just use iCloud Keychain

Storing 2FA tokens is one thing iCloud Keychain cannot do (yet ?), and it’s the primary reason I use 1Password over iCloud Keychain.

That being said, with Big Sur, 1Password changed its default behavior from being unintrusive to literally obscuring input fields with big “unlock 1Password” pop up’s.

I’m currently evaluating using either Password-store or Bitwarden with bitwarden_rs as a backend as I really don’t want my logins synchronized anywhere I don’t control.

Re:1Password Secrets Automation by oarsinsync on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @04:55PM (#26799173)
> That being said, with Big Sur, 1Password changed its default behavior from being unintrusive to literally obscuring input fields with big “unlock 1Password” pop up’s.

That's not a Big Sur thing, that's a 1Password thing (I've not upgraded to Big Sur still).

Re:1Password Secrets Automation by sooheon on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @11:02PM (#26802464)
This UI change is what may drive me away from a family plan if it doesn't get addressed.
Re:1Password Secrets Automation by bwoodruff on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @08:47PM (#26884039)
1Password > Prefs > Browsers > Untick 'automatically show inline menu' — may help. If not please write to our support team and we'll be happy to work with you.
Re:1Password Secrets Automation by ERD0L on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @04:48AM (#26804530)
This is the first thing I disable in settings
Re:1Password Secrets Automation by fiddlerwoaroof on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @04:09PM (#26798483)
I think the fingerprint auth stuff Apple’s working on will replace MFA: as I understand it, in Safari, the MacBook’s Fingerprint sensor implements the same protocol as a Yubikey or similar.
Re:1Password Secrets Automation by 8fingerlouie on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @05:33AM (#26804798)
One can only hope (and fear) they utilize the secure enclave for this task.

Hope because it would allow me to utilize my mac as a Yubikey. I have no idea how they would synchronize it to all Apple devices, but i'm fairly certain they will find a way.

Fear because it will pretty much guarantee i cannot use my password manager on other platforms.

I already use Secretive (https://github.com/maxgoedjen/secretive) to store SSH keys in the secure enclave with touch id integration, and it works really well. I also keep a couple of Yubikeys as backup :)

Re:1Password Secrets Automation by gen220 on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @03:34PM (#26797872)
Most password managers support auth with touchid/face id these days, I believe.

The value prop if you're 100% on-Apple, and OK with this fact, is hard to challenge. If you have some non-apple devices that need passwords, that's where having a third-party password service makes sense.

FWIW, I use `pass`, as a mostly-Apple person who also owns a few linux devices and occasionally requires passwords while `ssh`'d into servers.

Re:1Password Secrets Automation by larrybud on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @07:09AM (#26805456)
iCloud Keychain is ‘good enough’ if you are 100% in the Apple ecosystem, but there’s a lot it could do better, including password sharing as well as password export. Most glaringly there’s no support for storing additional meta data alongside the password; eg all the made up answers to “what was the street you grew up on?”, etc
Re:1Password Secrets Automation by trevorishere on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @03:40PM (#26797981)
I'd love to use a built-in service, but I need a service that has a web UI + Windows support + sharing support for family.
Re:1Password Secrets Automation by Vvector on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @03:20PM (#26797667)
BitWarden ties into iCloud somehow. I unlock it with my fingerprint.
Re:1Password Secrets Automation by stjohnswarts on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @04:07PM (#26798447)
I choose bitwarden because I like my passwords with a 3rd party rather than the big guys google/apple/etc . It works fine as both a desktop client and browser extension.
Re:1Password Secrets Automation by a-dub on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @03:39AM (#26804131)
honestly i think solutions to many of these problems have been put into practice in the cryptocurrency space.

there are commercial entities today that i don't have to trust, but will help me set up multiparty signatures for sending bitcoin transactions. i could see a similar mechanism being used for creating/revoking/recovering a compromised identity.

hierarchical deterministic wallets seem a decent blueprint for identity. if i can generate arbitrary pubkeys from a single seed, then i maintain my privacy across providers i use my identity with.

i used to think that the blockchain itself could make for a decent revocation list, but i don't think that's even neccessary. maybe it's simply time for governments to grow up and accept that the internet is critical now and as such provide basic digital identity services as they do with travel documents today. it doesn't have to be perfect, just publish revocations on behalf of citizens.