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Re:Coinbase’s listing may break records by rawtxapp on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @03:35AM (#26789208)
I believe this is going to be a big milestone in raising awareness of cryptocurrencies and making them more mainstream. I would expect a lot of the "but the gov will ban it" arguments to be significantly weaker as crypto exposure of traditional investors keeps getting larger and larger.

That said, one thing that boggles my mind is the fact that it seems to be currently valued at 100B$ which is roughly the market cap of Goldman Sachs.

Re:Coinbase’s listing may break records by logicchains on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @04:12AM (#26789497)
>That said, one thing that boggles my mind is the fact that it seems to be currently valued at 100B$ which is roughly the market cap of Goldman Sachs

It makes more sense when you consider the insane fees they get away with charging due to lack of competition in the regulated US crypto space. In a mature exchange in the normal financial markets, one might expect to pay under 0.5bps (one bp is 1% of 1%). In overseas crypto exchanges, the fee will be around 5bps. In Coinbase, it's 20-50bps.

Re:Coinbase’s listing may break records by TacticalCoder on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @05:36AM (#26790064)
> It makes more sense when you consider the insane fees they get away with charging due to lack of competition in the regulated US crypto space.

The fees, as you explain it, do indeed seem like highway robbery. But there's something very specific about Coinbase in the US: all customers funds from american fiscal residents in USD are FDIC insured (so up to 250 K are safe). AFAICT they're the only one to actually offer this? It's also a real company, with a real address, whose owners are real people, etc.

It's not exactly the "we're convicted criminals operating from the Cayman using some shady bank" type of crypto exchange.

Re:Coinbase’s listing may break records by cecida on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @06:27AM (#26790364)
Tether and their 45 billion of fully-backed assets (!) are based in the British Virgin Islands, and do their banking through a shady bank in the Bahamas.
Re:Coinbase’s listing may break records by scsilver on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @09:24AM (#26791808)
Can you point to their claim of FDIC coverage. Brokerages usually have SIPC for securities, I figured coinbase just had privste insurance and wasnt using FDIC or SIPC.

Looks like there is some details here https://www.coinbase.com/legal/insurance

Re:Coinbase’s listing may break records by ac29 on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @07:26PM (#26800894)
From your link: "To the extent U.S. customer funds are held as cash, they are maintained in pooled custodial accounts at one or more banks insured by the FDIC. Our custodial accounts have been established in a manner to make available pass-through FDIC insurance"

So, should you have the desire to keep cash at Coinbase for some reason, it will actually be held at a real bank and FDIC insured.

Re:Coinbase’s listing may break records by I_am_tiberius on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @05:04AM (#26789832)
> lack of competition in the regulated US crypto space

That's what I thought as well. People complain about monopolies but these over regulated spaces make it so difficult for startups to get going. It shouldn't be necessary for a non tangible asset company to need an angel investor that pays for tons of bureaucracy and license acquisition.

Re:Coinbase’s listing may break records by Guthur on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @05:30AM (#26790011)
I feel we collectively misinterpret what the problem with single trader situations are.

There being a monopoly is not the problem, the problems are always anti trust behaviour i.e. not co-operating with the market for improvement, closing of competition by some behaviour that is not beneficial to the market.

Highly regulated markets tend to do this due the difficulty in disrupting such a market, you need to play by the existing rules and that leaves little room for manoeuvre against the incumbents, the incumbents are free from anti trust because the rules are set by the authorities, often at the behest of the incumbents of course.

Re:Coinbase’s listing may break records by riffraff on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @04:21AM (#26789552)
but the business volume is _much_ lower, and GS deals with an inordinate amount of more lucrative things (SPACs, IPOs, etc).
Re:Coinbase’s listing may break records by ur-whale on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @05:53AM (#26790162)
> which is roughly the market cap of Goldman Sachs.

Nothing prevented GS to enter the crypto space and offer a product similar to Coinbase's.

Instead, this is what they were spending their time on:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/nov/30/bitcoin-is-...

Re:Coinbase’s listing may break records by rchaud on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @11:26AM (#26793557)
Goldman Sachs is large enough and ubiquitous enough that it should be assumed that they are, to some extent, on both sides of every trade they recommend (or discourage).

Just because Goldman is telling their pension fund clients to avoid crypto doesn't mean that they don't have teams trading billions of it daily.

Re:Coinbase’s listing may break records by rvz on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @05:02AM (#26789822)
> I believe this is going to be a big milestone in raising awareness of cryptocurrencies and making them more mainstream.

'Mainstream' as in a stronger argument for cryptocurrency regulations. We are only going to see more retail investors throwing in riskier investments with leverage and will end up bag-holding in another bust cycle.

Re:Coinbase’s listing may break records by bryanwb on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @05:41AM (#26790098)
Big hedge funds never do risky things and leave us holding the bag</sarcasm>
Re:Coinbase’s listing may break records by rvz on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @07:18AM (#26790725)
Translation:

Sure thing. I'm going to buy Coinbase stock with leverage on the day of its direct listing and hope that I will HODL it all the way to the moon. When it goes back down, it doesn't matter if I'm wiped out or a bag holder, I can still get a way with it via asking for a bailout just because a big hedge fund can do it. /s

Re:Coinbase’s listing may break records by the_local_host on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @03:57AM (#26789375)
> I would expect a lot of the "but the gov will ban it" arguments to be significantly weaker...

Cryptocurrency supporters should be lobbying for government bans, not against them.

The most direct way to demonstrate that cryptocurrencies are truly decentralized and resilient to censorship is to subject them to unrelenting attack, most naturally in the form of legal crackdowns.

Re:Coinbase’s listing may break records by paxys on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @04:12AM (#26789494)
There are cryptocurrency supporters who want to revolutionize the world's monetary systems, get governments out of currency manipulation, make international transfers easy and free, remove burden of entry for businesses, remove oppressive payment processors etc.

Then there are cryptocurrency supporters who are holding large amounts of it and just want the value to keep going up.

The latter category definitely does not want a government ban on trading/usage.

Re:Coinbase’s listing may break records by JumpCrisscross on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @05:27AM (#26789999)
> cryptocurrencies are truly decentralized and resilient to censorship

If a major government wanted to break crypto, it would simply credibly threaten to launch a 51% attack. This is within the budget of most developed economies, and much simpler than enforcing a ban. Nobody does it because it would be stupid. Crypto is part of the economy. Destroying it would be akin to bombing a domestic factory because one doesn’t like its products.

Re:Coinbase’s listing may break records by puranjay on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @06:38AM (#26790435)
> If a major government wanted to break crypto, it would simply credibly threaten to launch a 51% attack.

Anyone who makes this argument likely stopped staying in touch with blockchain tech after 2016.

Re:Coinbase’s listing may break records by knowaveragejoe on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @05:29PM (#26799570)
That seems to apply to a lot of discussion of crypto on HN.

It's like people stopped paying attention after the last crash and assume the crypto space has stood still since.

Re:Coinbase’s listing may break records by throw4738 on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @05:38AM (#26790076)
51% attack would be very expensive on electricity and new infrastructure. There is already working and profitable infrastructure to prevent money laundering.
Re:Coinbase’s listing may break records by mateuszf on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @05:41AM (#26790095)
> If a major government wanted to break crypto, it would simply credibly threaten to launch a 51% attack.

Do you know how hard it's now to buy/produce graphic cards and asic-s good for mining crypto? The demand is very big yet producers can't scale up. I don't see governments to have possibility obtaining so much hardware in a short/medium time horizon.

Re:Coinbase’s listing may break records by simiones on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @05:53AM (#26790164)
Why do you think the government would have to produce new ASICs, when they could just buy or seize the existing ones?
Re:Coinbase’s listing may break records by mateuszf on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @07:21AM (#26790746)
> Why do you think the government would have to produce new ASICs, when they could just buy or seize the existing ones?

There is not enough of them to buy on the market to make 51% attack. Of course seizing is possible but hard because I imagine it would be quite hard to locate them, apart form large mining operations they are quite distributed.

In case of bitcoin network it would have to be a large multicountry operation. Because the miners are really distributed around the world.

Re:Coinbase’s listing may break records by ericmay on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @08:40AM (#26791389)
They could just subpoena websites and retailers that sold them previously and start there.
Re:Coinbase’s listing may break records by WanderPanda on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @06:49AM (#26790503)
That would take out the "most developed countries" part...
Re:Coinbase’s listing may break records by spottybanana on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @04:01AM (#26789413)
Not agreeing, but it is interesting viewpoint. Personally I have been involved a lot in the crypto space, and seen lots of bank account freezes and similar problems happening to crypto traders. Maybe sometimes there is something nefarious going on, maybe it was false positive, who knows. However, personally seeing this has affected me in a way where I don't really trust banks much. That has put me in a position where I have increasingly large position in cryptocurrencies.
Re:Coinbase’s listing may break records by beaner on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @04:11AM (#26789481)
That's dumb. The purpose of decentralization isn't to simply demonstrate the strength of the decentralization. It's an element that helps something achieve a purpose. In this case, the ability of a person to be their own bank. Not being banned also helps that purpose. Why would cryptocurrency supporters lobby for government bans?
Re:Coinbase’s listing may break records by throw4738 on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @05:41AM (#26790093)
But most cryptos are not truly decentralised and robust enough. There is centralised dev team. And no crypto can truly handle brainsplit network issues.
Re:Coinbase’s listing may break records by londons_explore on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @04:01AM (#26789412)
The protocols and tech might be resistant to government crackdowns, but the user's being sent to prison for "illegal use of cryptocurrency" would certainly hamper use...
Re:Coinbase’s listing may break records by rtpg on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @04:56AM (#26789779)
Except there's a gov't ban and now you can't actually get dollars into your brokerage account to buy crypto (and neither can anyone else), and then the price starts dropping.

There's only so much effort someone will go through until they'll just put the money in Robinhood or something and buy some random meme stock.

Re:Coinbase’s listing may break records by bouncycastle on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @04:46AM (#26789717)
Obviously sarcasm, but there's a little bit of truth behind this. The real value of cryptocurrency is if the governments ban it. (They are more of a nightmare for totalitarian regimes, rather than free open societies.)
Re:Coinbase’s listing may break records by agumonkey on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @04:12AM (#26789495)
Isn't that typical of new 'things' ? Defining themselves against the norm only to reach for acceptance as proof of stability ?
Re:Coinbase’s listing may break records by TedDoesntTalk on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @04:40AM (#26789671)
> Cryptocurrency supporters should be lobbying for government bans, not against them.

Just like a banned dr. Suess book, this would further inflate prices

Re:Coinbase’s listing may break records by paholg on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @04:44AM (#26789709)
No Dr. Seuss books are banned. The publisher decided to stop publishing a few of them.
Re:Coinbase’s listing may break records by simiones on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @05:55AM (#26790183)
There's more to it than that - eBay for example has banned trade in those books as well (Amazon too, and probably others), on the second hand market. Not sure if they reversed this absolutely crazy decision in the meantime, would be happy to hear that they did.
Re:Coinbase’s listing may break records by TedDoesntTalk on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @09:48AM (#26792075)
They did not reverse it. And I can’t buy those books at Barnes & Noble, either. Even at their physical stores.
Re:Coinbase’s listing may break records by knowaveragejoe on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @05:30PM (#26799576)
Oh no!

Anyways.

Re:Coinbase’s listing may break records by jillesvangurp on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @05:47AM (#26790127)
At this point the reason governments are not cracking down as much as they could is increasingly not just that that would do quite a bit of damage among e.g. VCs and institutional investors (think pensions). People come out with pitch forks if you start messing with their pensions; so that is a big reason to maybe talk tough but let it happen at the same time.

But there's also the FOMO factor. Governments are afraid of missing out and getting run over by e.g. the Chinese doing this regardless of what they allow or won't allow. In the US particularly, this is a direct threat to the relevance of the dollar as a means to conduct international trade. For the same reason China is moving pretty aggressively against certain crypto currencies while openly backing and endorsing others and e.g. the Chines national bank openly flirting with moving their currency on a block chain.

That's why a lot of this stuff is happening under the watchful eye of the SEC with companies head quartered in San Francisco.

Re:Coinbase’s listing may break records by endymi0n on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @07:22AM (#26790756)
That‘s not a feature, it‘s a bug. An unregulated, emerging industry that comes with a baggage of enormous energy use, fraud and money laundering is one thing.

Letting it get to a level of „Too big to fail“ where regulation or an outright ban might have repercussions on whole economies is a whole another thing that I‘m not exactly looking forward to.

Re:Coinbase’s listing may break records by vineyardmike on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @05:24AM (#26789977)
What’s even crazier is that GS has 30k plus employees while CB has 1500. The value per employee difference is insane.

Then consider that CB might find side revenue sources (HS has many sources of revenue for example) and think about what multiple of current value CB can grow to and how comparatively “easy” it is for CB to double compared to GS.

Re:Coinbase’s listing may break records by drexlspivey on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @07:05AM (#26790617)
They were valued at 100B$ before their earnings last week showing an annualized growth of 500% (1.8B revenue for q1 vs 1.1B for the whole 2020), I expect it to settle at a higher number tomorrow.
Re:Coinbase’s listing may break records by randomsearch on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @03:59AM (#26789395)
I think it increases the chance not of legitimisation but of a govt bailout when either (a) Bitcoin threatens to melt the planet or (b) bitcoin’s value collapses, because there isn’t a (c) I can see.
Re:Coinbase’s listing may break records by rocqua on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @04:11AM (#26789484)
Why can't bitcoins price "stabilize" by fluctuating inside the 1000 to 200000 range?
Re:Coinbase’s listing may break records by pta2002 on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @06:02AM (#26790233)
I'd say 20000% fluctuations are hardly stable, no?
Re:Coinbase’s listing may break records by jcpham2 on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @04:21AM (#26789551)
a) it totally can b) proof work uses as much electricity as proof of work needs, the internet cry-for-help crowd likes to recite made up numbers
Re:Coinbase’s listing may break records by ac29 on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @07:41PM (#26801066)
> b) proof work uses as much electricity as proof of work needs

No, proof as work uses as much electricity as is profitable. The entire Bitcoin network could trivially be run on a single PC.