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Re:Prince Philip has died by dr_dshiv on Friday April 09, 2021 @07:43AM (#26749257)
Because Prince Charles is heir to the throne (and has been portrayed more negatively in the news media than any other living person), some in the HN community may be surprised to know that he wrote a book on philosophy.

https://www.amazon.com/Harmony-New-Way-Looking-World/dp/0061...

I found the book to be astonishingly good. It takes a design approach to Platonism and western esotericism. It goes deep into "sacred geometry" but steers clear of woo or religion. He adopts a Pythagorean perennialism and advocates for an ecological "spirituality" that is integrated with science. It contains examples from his own urban design projects. I was reeeeally surprised to find this kind of thinking coming from the Prince of Wales.

Re:Prince Philip has died by ubermonkey on Friday April 09, 2021 @09:12AM (#26750097)
Extremely famous people frequently "author" books, usually with ghostwriters. Charles' book is credit to him "with" two other people (Tony Juniper and Ian Skelly who, I suspect, did most of the heavy lifting.

Charles has for years been sympathetic to all sorts of woo, such as "alternative" medicine; his book was met with broad criticism for its cherry-picking of scientific findings to support his environmental agenda but ignoring evidence against alt medicine, etc.

Re:Prince Philip has died by oneplane on Friday April 09, 2021 @09:40AM (#26750428)
I don't think there is such a thing as 'alternative medicine'. There is medicine, and there is not-medicine. Just like there is treatment and there is not-treatment.

Calling things 'alternative' puts them on the same level, which they are not.

Re:Prince Philip has died by lotsofpulp on Friday April 09, 2021 @09:47AM (#26750506)
I agree. I guess people use “alternative” to refer to “treatments” that have not been, are not able to be, or have failed proper trials.
Re:Prince Philip has died by dmos62 on Friday April 09, 2021 @10:33AM (#26751063)
Is laughter a treatment? It depends. A treatment is something you use to treat. Not something that is effective. If you want to summarize evidence or present opinion, do so, but don't play with language.
Re:Prince Philip has died by oneplane on Friday April 09, 2021 @11:01AM (#26751391)
We could expand the word to the context it was used in if that is what you desire: medical treatment. We're not talking about treatment in itself, since that would also cover unrelated issues like 'waste water treatment', which isn't exactly related to the conversational context here.
Re:Prince Philip has died by BitwiseFool on Friday April 09, 2021 @11:25AM (#26751702)
How about the word "Therapeutic"?
Re:Prince Philip has died by ben_w on Friday April 09, 2021 @04:56PM (#26756062)
Again, depends what for. If someone told me laughter was genuinely therapeutic for clinical depression, I… ok, I would still be surprised, but I could be convinced.

If they told me it would cure Alzheimer’s, I’d make a mental note to ignore their opinions in future.

“Alternative medicine” is so often snake oil, that anything calling itself that is something I hold in the same regard as Star Trek Voyager’s plot devices. Indeed, one such “alternative medicine” is what my mother used religiously to stave off old age memory problems — she got Alzheimer’s about 16 years younger than her mother, who didn’t use them.

Re:Prince Philip has died by dmos62 on Saturday April 10, 2021 @06:56AM (#26760552)
> If they told me it would cure Alzheimer’s, I’d make a mental note to ignore their opinions in future.

Quick thinking has its place, but wouldn't you care why the person believes that? The anecdata about your family history isn't any more credible, if that's all we have to go by.

I think quick think should be addressed with slow think. By thinking speed I'm referring to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thinking,_Fast_and_Slow

Re:Prince Philip has died by ben_w on Saturday April 10, 2021 @08:58AM (#26761148)
> but wouldn't you care why the person believes that?

In the absence of any surprising circumstances, no. I grew up with all the tropes — Catholicism, New Age takes on Wicca, Hinduism, anamism; homeopathy, Bach flower remedies, dowsing, runestones, horoscopes — so I’ve got decent reason to believe I already know why they might believe this hypothetical I’ve literally just made up.

Re:Prince Philip has died by sbuk on Friday April 09, 2021 @12:12PM (#26752383)
“You know what they call alternative medicine that's been proved to work? - Medicine.”

― Tim Minchin

Re:Prince Philip has died by starfallg on Friday April 09, 2021 @10:12AM (#26750806)
Part of the issue is that the practice of medicine predate scientific medicine (which is known as just 'medicine' today). For example, many medicinal herbs used in traditional medicine are effective for a variety of ailments, and some have been proven scientifically. So how do we reconcile that with scientific medicine without stigmatising possibly effective remedies.
Re:Prince Philip has died by u801e on Friday April 09, 2021 @10:23AM (#26750931)
> many medicinal herbs used in traditional medicine are effective for a variety of ailments, and some have been proven scientifically. So how do we reconcile that with scientific medicine without stigmatising possibly effective remedies.

If those treatments have been studied in a scientific manner, then the reconciliation, so to speak, has already happened. But, how do we define the effectiveness of treatment? In some cases, using a placebo has shown some effect, but that's because the hypothesis about the effectiveness of a proposed treatment didn't pan out.

Re:Prince Philip has died by oneplane on Friday April 09, 2021 @10:50AM (#26751255)
To be fair, a placebo can be helpful in its own way. And a 'good' placebo might need to have various methods, tastes, shapes, sizes etc; on the other hand it would be more psychotherapy than what people think of when thinking 'medicine'.

Something that 'helps' in a measurable way with no drawbacks is a useful tool to have. It does of course not mend broken bones or suture cuts in the skin.

Re:Prince Philip has died by msla on Friday April 09, 2021 @10:20AM (#26750890)
As others have said: We do the trials, and, if something from the pre-scientific era passes muster, we figure out the best way to make it as safe and efficacious as possible with the least variability in effect and fewest side effects.

I'm not saying that eating a plant is ineffective, but plants don't come with dosage information for the active ingredient printed on the stem, and knowing how much of the useful (and potentially deadly) substance you're ingesting is important. Vitally important, if you're taking something like digitalis, which comes from foxglove: Get a digitalis dosage far enough wrong and it kills you.

Re:Prince Philip has died by starfallg on Friday April 09, 2021 @10:34AM (#26751076)
Yeah, but by stigmatising traditional medicine as 'not medicine', the damage has already been done. Lots of people would be turned off a remedy just because it's 'not medicine', even afterward it was proven scientifically. It is medicine, just not scientific medicine. Compare with the issue of getting people to trust in vaccines when the news headlines are all about very rare side effects.

Keep in mind that there are traditional treatments that we haven't yet isolated the cause of action or the understand the pharmacology due to it being the interaction of different compounds.

I'm not supporting traditional or alternative medicine, but I also don't think that the issue is so black and white, and treating it as such turns people away from the subject entirely.

Re:Prince Philip has died by oneplane on Friday April 09, 2021 @10:58AM (#26751350)
The issue is with the devaluation of mudding of words and language. (which might not be the correct wording)

I don't think it has to be stigmatising, but I do think that calling things by their specific name helps with everyones mindset.

Some words like 'helpful' are fine, because it does wat it says it does. But calling disparate things by the same name leaves the door open for people to mentally align those things to 'be' the same thing, which they aren't. Distinction is important, even if the differentiation isn't black-and-white. Taking some aspirine vs. drinking a nice cup of green tea can both help with a slightly sore throat, but they are not the same thing. (at the same time, I'd argue that it's better to take that nice cup of tea, take a nap, eat healthy, get to bed on time etc instead of covering the symptom with aspirine)

Turning people away from a subject in itself isn't a bad thing; if someone is swayed that easily, they should probably not be entering a world of non-repeatable non-measurable non-transferable items and activities, especially if the people involved can't be held responsible for their actions. It also isn't a pharmacology thing on its own. While pharmaceuticals can help with certain issues, it's not the core of medicine and in certain cultures it's mostly just abused to cover up symptoms instead of used to mitigate or resolve root causes.

But it's a tricky comparison. In the end we're comparing something measurable with something based on feelings and traditions. Those are generally not that reconcilable.

Re:Prince Philip has died by tacc728 on Friday April 09, 2021 @05:32PM (#26756468)
“Lots of people would be turned off a remedy just because it's 'not medicine', even afterward it was proven scientifically.” Not sure when that has actually happened?

Willow bark to aspirin is a great example of an extremely old “traditional” treatment becoming medicine. Same with quinine for malaria, etc. Tons of real medicines originated by isolating compounds found in nature, even if the final pill form you see is purified or even synthetic. Most people are unaware or just fine with this fact. Sure there are probably many natural treatments out there that are effective (and many that aren’t, or are downright dangerous). We should do the work needed to study them scientifically, and turn the good ones into medicine. Not just promote alternative treatments indiscriminately.

Re:Prince Philip has died by rodelrod on Friday April 09, 2021 @10:16AM (#26750846)
We do the trials.
Re:Prince Philip has died by ubermonkey on Friday April 09, 2021 @10:53AM (#26751284)
I agree, I was just using term as it is normally used.

The pithy joke about it is this:

"What do you call alternative medicine that works?"

"Medicine."

Re:Prince Philip has died by BitwiseFool on Friday April 09, 2021 @11:27AM (#26751732)
From what I understand most "Alternative Medicine" can be chalked up to the placebo effect combined with a self fulfilling prophecy of patient expectations.
Re:Prince Philip has died by michaelcampbell on Friday April 09, 2021 @09:13AM (#26750100)
> and has been portrayed more negatively in the news media than any other living person

Uhm, what?

Re:Prince Philip has died by AnimalMuppet on Friday April 09, 2021 @12:13PM (#26752387)
Yeah. Some guy named Trump would like a word about being portrayed negatively...
Re:Prince Philip has died by chanmad29 on Friday April 09, 2021 @09:27AM (#26750267)
Deserved or not, the coverage he gets has been a balancing act to all the generally sympathetic coverage that Diana gets.
Re:Prince Philip has died by JohnHaugeland on Friday April 09, 2021 @09:41AM (#26750434)
Please be serious.

He's not even the worst treated person in the British royal family, and Diana has been off of the television for decades

The Prince was largely irrelevant even on British television, let alone the rest of the world

If he was the worst treated person on TV, we'd have heard a whole lot more about his Epstein time

Re:Prince Philip has died by chanmad29 on Friday April 09, 2021 @09:56AM (#26750642)
You're right. Meghan appears to have been treated worse than PC. My understanding is that there is an overall negative image of PC, but he does not constant coverage, so that helps his case I guess.
Re:Prince Philip has died by afandian on Friday April 09, 2021 @07:57AM (#26749355)
I'd never heard of this, but I do note that it has two co-authors (Tony Juniper, Ian Skelly).
Re:Prince Philip has died by AndrewOMartin on Friday April 09, 2021 @08:52AM (#26749895)
Just in case anyone was skim reading a bit too quickly. This is written by Charles, not Philip.
Re:Prince Philip has died by de_keyboard on Friday April 09, 2021 @07:58AM (#26749364)
Re:Prince Philip has died by bencollier49 on Friday April 09, 2021 @07:56AM (#26749351)
What a wonderful comment. Thanks - I didn't realise that he'd written a book like that, and the fact that it incorporates Platonism and Western Esotericism is even more impressive. Thanks for the comment.
Re:Prince Philip has died by dragonwriter on Friday April 09, 2021 @10:30AM (#26751008)
> Because Prince Charles is heir to the throne (and has been portrayed more negatively in the news media than any other living person)

Unless your scope of attention is limited to the British Royal Family, I’m not sure how you come to approximately that conclusion. And even if it was, Prince Andrew easily beats him out.

And if we’re going by intensity of negative portrayal, and considering just the British media, the Duke and especially Duchess of Sussex is at least in close competition with him, too, and probabyl way ahead if we are just looking at current coverage.

Re:Prince Philip has died by throwaway59553 on Friday April 09, 2021 @09:01AM (#26749988)
There is also a BBC documentary on architecture[1], and his multiple interventions on the subject [2]

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=891qV-7Y42w

[2] https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFoke4cads8VNAi1pbi7IkM7p...

Re:Prince Philip has died by rogerthis on Friday April 09, 2021 @08:17AM (#26749556)
I think he was friend of Martin Lings, who was very close to the Perennialist School (René Guenon, Frithjof Schuon).
Re:Prince Philip has died by mateus1 on Friday April 09, 2021 @09:30AM (#26750304)
Just goes to show how interesting and creative life would be, were we not wage-slaves like Philip.
Re:Prince Philip has died by k__ on Friday April 09, 2021 @09:15AM (#26750131)
As the next head of a big church, some philosohical work is probably expected from him.
Re:Prince Philip has died by cbfrench on Friday April 09, 2021 @10:28AM (#26750990)
As an Anglican priest, I can confidently say that our expectation and hope runs rather the opposite direction, given the—ahem—somewhat questionable mental faculties of many who’ve served as Supreme Governour of the Church of England since the Act of Supremacy, lol.
Re:Prince Philip has died by digitalengineer on Friday April 09, 2021 @08:57AM (#26749956)
"sacred geometry", esoteric, Pythagorean and holistic? It certainly sounds freemasonry-like. Was he a Freemason?
Re:Prince Philip has died by JohnHaugeland on Friday April 09, 2021 @09:52AM (#26750584)
Uh. What?

Sacred Geometry is an ancient Greek concept that has nothing to do with Freemasons. Pythagoras was the most famous person to push it. It's that thing where they thought the world was made out of the Platonic solids, tried to explain the planetary orbits in terms of polygons, et cetera. It remained huge through Greece and Italy until the 1400s. The Leonardo piece "Vitruvian Man," where the guy has his arms at a couple of angles, and all the describing shapes behind him? That's Sacred Geometry. People used to think those shapes were evidence of design by God.

This was extremely common throughout Europe, especially in Christian churches and cathedrals (much like Islamic) until the late 1400s, when an Italian named Alberti wrote a book that basically pushed religious architecture forward 100 years in ability to make safe large buildings.

That book pushed for a return to circles and the cross, and most of Europe followed. However, that was also 60 years before the Anglican split, and about how long it took things to move from one end of a continent to another back then, so when it was getting to England, England decided to say that the rest of Europe was losing the beat, and stuck to the more complex Greek styled visuals

Most of Europe removed the Sacred Geometry, but England (and Italy) kept theirs. England in particular sees this as a tie to historic legitimacy; one of the things that makes Their Church Different And Better (tm). "We didn't forget the old ways" kind of thing.

Freemasonry? This isn't the Flintstones.

Re:Prince Philip has died by digitalengineer on Friday April 09, 2021 @11:08AM (#26751466)
Im sorry but what do you think the ‘G’ stands for inside the Freemasons logo? Also: Flintsones? The Queen’s cousin is the most senior Freemason in the hierarchy.
Re:Prince Philip has died by robbiep on Friday April 09, 2021 @11:23AM (#26751670)
It most commonly refers to God, or the great architect of the universe. It may be considered to refer to geometry but that’s not usually the default and not what I’ve seen discussed or referenced most commonly from masons
Re:Prince Philip has died by digitalengineer on Friday April 09, 2021 @11:49AM (#26752099)
God or geometry, that is one of the great debates. The letter is present in French freemasonry as well. The letter D would be more appropriate (Dieu). Geometry however would still hold. Anyway without going into detail, geometry has important place in freemasonry. The question then is geometry of what exactly? But we are getting off topic.
Re:Prince Philip has died by Apocryphon on Friday April 09, 2021 @11:35AM (#26751865)
It’s probably a mystic tradition that Freemasons adopted after the fact.
Re:Prince Philip has died by bencollier49 on Friday April 09, 2021 @08:59AM (#26749969)
I believe Prince Charles may have been made a mason, but I don't think he's active, unlike several of his relatives.
Re:Prince Philip has died by samstave on Friday April 09, 2021 @09:20AM (#26750180)
Like who?

Anyplace to read up on it? Obviously their ceremonies are full of masonic and other esoteric pagan ritual. THey are a pagan Germanic-druid hybrid after-all.

Re:Prince Philip has died by bencollier49 on Friday April 09, 2021 @05:31PM (#26756451)
That might be pushing it a bit. Prince Edward, the Duke of Kent is the Grandmaster of the Grand Lodge of England.

Freemasonry isn't pagan in any major sense. It's pretty solidly Abrahamic, and parts of it are explicitly Christian. The closest you'll get to paganism is a continuation of themes and symbolism which are shared in common between ancient cultures.

https://www.ugle.org.uk/about-us/whos-who/12-governance/155-...

Re:Prince Philip has died by andrepd on Friday April 09, 2021 @08:38AM (#26749755)
> Because Prince Charles is heir to the throne (and has been portrayed more negatively in the news media than any other living person)

I can sit and name persons more negatively treated for hours and not run out of names.

EDIT: Why is my comment collapsed? Genuine question, don't know how this works.

Re:Prince Philip has died by baybal2 on Friday April 09, 2021 @08:44AM (#26749808)
> Because Prince Charles is heir to the throne (and has been portrayed more negatively in the news media than any other living person)

The UK should quickly tweak their royal succession laws, and give the crown to Edward, or Anne, while the queen is still alive.

If Charles abdicates, the line of succession dispute would be rather funny under the current succession laws.

Re:Prince Philip has died by akjssdk on Friday April 09, 2021 @08:54AM (#26749922)
I have never heard about this, do you have a link that elaborates? I love weird succession lines.
Re:Prince Philip has died by baybal2 on Friday April 09, 2021 @09:12AM (#26750094)
If Charles abdicates, his children receive the baton. But Harry's, and William's succession is under question with both being known not to have that much enthusiasm with the royal business.

If they too decline, line goes to their children below the age of majority, and the icky question of regency appears.

The regency in question notionally gives quite a lot of power, as the crown itself. If regency goes to the executive branch, it will throw out the last check on the Downing st. for may many thing, including the use of UK's nuclear weapons.

Re:Prince Philip has died by rrss on Friday April 09, 2021 @09:47AM (#26750511)
Can the UK just get rid of the monarchy if it turns into a mess? It doesn't make much sense to me to continue to have a "royal family" if the whole family refuses to be the monarch.
Re:Prince Philip has died by alistairSH on Friday April 09, 2021 @09:16AM (#26750135)
Is there any law that speaks to regency? Does Parliament pick the regent? Or Kate? Or somebody else?
Re:Prince Philip has died by baybal2 on Friday April 09, 2021 @09:17AM (#26750151)
Yes, the parliament will appoint one as per historical precedent.
Re:Prince Philip has died by alistairSH on Friday April 09, 2021 @08:59AM (#26749976)
Were he to abdicate, wouldn't the crown pass to his eldest son?
Re:Prince Philip has died by baybal2 on Friday April 09, 2021 @09:02AM (#26750003)
Yes, but William's own unwillingness to sit on the throne is well known.
Re:Prince Philip has died by Symbiote on Saturday April 10, 2021 @06:50AM (#26760524)
> EDIT: Why is my comment collapsed? Genuine question, don't know how this works.

The monarchists were out in force, and downvoted your comment. I've upvoted it, but otherwise there's not much to do -- I think a lot of people who don't care for the monarchy probably avoiding the discussion.

Re:Prince Philip has died by nanna on Friday April 09, 2021 @08:03AM (#26749420)
> (and has been portrayed more negatively in the news media than any other living person)

Bold statement.

Re:Prince Philip has died by 076ae80a-3c97-4 on Friday April 09, 2021 @08:23AM (#26749623)
Considering Prince Andrew exists, it's a false statement.
Re:Prince Philip has died by b1476 on Friday April 09, 2021 @08:07AM (#26749449)
> (and has been portrayed more negatively in the news media than any other living person)

Um, did you forget about his first wife?

Re:Prince Philip has died by ben_w on Friday April 09, 2021 @09:20AM (#26750178)
Well, she is dead. I would suggest that both Andrew and Megan (for very different reasons!) are treated worse in the media than Charles, and that’s just within the royal family. Does even one British newspaper like Theresa May?
Re:Prince Philip has died by neaden on Friday April 09, 2021 @08:48AM (#26749848)
Are you thinking of Diana? She was Charles' wife.
Re:Prince Philip has died by rrss on Friday April 09, 2021 @08:54AM (#26749920)
comment is about Charles...
Re:Prince Philip has died by neaden on Friday April 09, 2021 @09:01AM (#26749998)
Oh you're right, in which case I'm not sure why the parent is bringing this up.
Re:Prince Philip has died by galuggus on Friday April 09, 2021 @09:07AM (#26750044)
I wonder if he's read it.
Re:Prince Philip has died by JohnHaugeland on Friday April 09, 2021 @09:42AM (#26750445)
> (and has been portrayed more negatively in the news media than any other living person)

They really do love making victims out of their predatory world leaders, don't they?

Trump fans do this too