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Re:Israel may have achieved herd immunity against Covid-19 by iso1631 on Thursday April 08, 2021 @08:29AM (#26737880)
> In the UK 60% of the adult population have had the jab now

First jab

Israel has 56% of people fully vaccinated, Chile 22%, US 19%

UK is just 8%

> but everyone is apparently cool with that because "kids don't get sick from it"

The government and media don't give a stuff about anyone under the age of 50, certainly not under 40.

Re:Israel may have achieved herd immunity against Covid-19 by rualca on Thursday April 08, 2021 @08:48AM (#26738044)
> The government and media don't give a stuff about anyone under the age of 50, certainly not under 40.

I find this blend of comments disheartening and disappointing, mainly because they appear to come from a place of willful ignorance.

Please try not to forget that the reason all covid-19 vaccination programmes have been rolled out progressively from the older to younger segments of the population is due to the fact that:

a) vaccines are in short supply, thus mass vaccination programs demand a rational approach to maximize it's effectiveness in lowering covid-19 deaths,

b) all covid-19 vaccination programmes prioritize vaccinating at-risk groups within their population,

c) covid-19 is patently known to have a considerably high fatality rate on older segments of the population, while on younger segments of the population it's negligible.

Let's not feign ignorance here. Covid-19 kills old people in spades while young people just brush it off. If you care about loved ones and aren't happy with he idea of seeing your elders die from covid-19 then it's obvious why said elders are moved to the front of the queue to get vaccinated.

This should be so obvious that should require no explanation. Then again basic steps to safeguard the health and well-being of others, such as the ridiculous anti-mask militancy, is sadly a thing. So it's clear that many among us simply care nothing about any issue that does not involve them directly and are so self-centered that interpret basic care for others as an affront to their personal privileges.

Re:Israel may have achieved herd immunity against Covid-19 by switch007 on Thursday April 08, 2021 @10:59AM (#26739590)
The statement is absolutely correct referring to the government and the Conservative party in general.
Re:Israel may have achieved herd immunity against Covid-19 by rualca on Thursday April 08, 2021 @08:27PM (#26745439)
> The statement is absolutely correct referring to the government and the Conservative party in general.

It really isn't, and reeks of egocentric entitlement. It should be obvious that at-risk groups are a priority. Complaining that the people that likely die from covid are being prioritized over a group that has a negligible risk for no reason other than wanting to jump the line is something that's both baffling and dumbfounding.

Re:Israel may have achieved herd immunity against Covid-19 by iso1631 on Friday April 09, 2021 @06:12AM (#26748652)
They could have said "we need to get rid of jobs and remove your social contact to save a few old people's lives, it's going to cost a fortune, so we're going to implement a one of wealth tax which will mean those who we're destroying the economy for (to implement lockdown and brexit) are the ones that will have to pay for it - the very people that made an absolute fortune from the rise in asset prices, the ones sitting on final salary pensions paid for from the public purse

But they didn't. Instead they do things like closing sure start centres and increasing pensions way more than wages while taxing people 69% marginal rates for a typical middle class job.

Re:Israel may have achieved herd immunity against Covid-19 by rrrrrrrrrrrryan on Thursday April 08, 2021 @02:59PM (#26742417)
It's not so simple, though. Retired people can quarantine. They might not want to, and they might choose not to, but they're able. Working-age people can't: they have to go out into the world and put themselves at risk in order to keep this show running.

The real question is: is our goal to minimize deaths, or to do what's fair? For the most part, we've chosen to heed the advice of our public health experts and minimize deaths.

But is it really fair that we vaccinate all the old people first, just so they can leave their home and get back to their weekly bingo nights, instead of the younger person working at a grocery store to make sure everyone has food on the table? From an ethics perspective, I don't think the answer is so clear-cut, and I think it's reasonable for people to gripe about it.

Re:Israel may have achieved herd immunity against Covid-19 by iso1631 on Thursday April 08, 2021 @02:12PM (#26741934)
It's not just about vaccines rationing, it's vaccine passports, it's housing, it's taxes, it's wealth, it's opportunities, it's job losses, it's pensions, it's triple locks for wealthy pensioners in enormous houses on final salary pensions, but unemployment your young people in house shares
Re:Israel may have achieved herd immunity against Covid-19 by cgriswald on Thursday April 08, 2021 @09:08AM (#26738223)
It might be the right approach but that’s not at all “obvious,” and the question has philosophical, ethical, and political roots. Do we immunize the most vulnerable to make sure they’re taken care of or do we immunize the most likely spreaders to reduce the risk to everyone, including the most vulnerable, relatively equally? How do you weigh in existing precautions, ongoing changes to those precautions, financial struggles, and employment demands to these decisions? Do we focus on regions currently most affected or do we roll it out equally? There are a million questions like these and the choices aren’t all obvious.

Your post is unnecessarily hostile, ignorant, and insensitive. I knew someone who died of the disease. He was half my age and I’m too young to be eligible for the vaccine. Not all young people “brush it off.”

Re:Israel may have achieved herd immunity against Covid-19 by Angostura on Thursday April 08, 2021 @09:12AM (#26738260)
> It might be the right approach but that’s not at all “obvious,”

1. When the vaccine roll-out was started, there was no proof that it prevented infection - only that it prevented death and serious illness and hospitalisation.

2. In the UK it is estimated that having the vaccine in the first wave and vaccinating the priority groups woudl have saved over 90% of deaths that occurred.

It's pretty obvious

Re:Israel may have achieved herd immunity against Covid-19 by cgriswald on Thursday April 08, 2021 @09:26AM (#26738412)
(1) is a good argument for why you should start there when you have that ignorance. (2) is a meaningless hypothetical that does not describe the current situation. Neither addresses even some of the example questions I’ve raised which don’t even cover the space of questions which should be considered.

If you think the answers are “obvious”, you’re either ignoring relevant questions or you are filling in answers with your own assumptions.

Re:Israel may have achieved herd immunity against Covid-19 by _joel on Thursday April 08, 2021 @08:33AM (#26737918)
It'll be interesting to see if they enforce covid passports whilst a large swathe of the population is still not eligible to have a single vaccine dose, let alone have had both
Re:Israel may have achieved herd immunity against Covid-19 by londons_explore on Thursday April 08, 2021 @08:45AM (#26738021)
They will, but those not eligible will just get an automatic passport.

They need that system anyway for babies too young to be vaccinated, people with health issues making the vaccine inadvisable, etc.

Re:Israel may have achieved herd immunity against Covid-19 by ghaff on Thursday April 08, 2021 @08:50AM (#26738078)
Who is "they"? In the US it will mostly be individual businesses making whatever decisions make the most sense from a business perspective.
Re:Israel may have achieved herd immunity against Covid-19 by _joel on Thursday April 08, 2021 @09:49AM (#26738623)
UK, as was discussed in the thread above
Re:Israel may have achieved herd immunity against Covid-19 by naturalauction on Thursday April 08, 2021 @09:05AM (#26738198)
Presumably the UK where there is lots of discussion about the government possibly making vaccine passports mandatory for certain types of businesses (I think large-scale events and nightclubs are examples).
Re:Israel may have achieved herd immunity against Covid-19 by ghaff on Thursday April 08, 2021 @09:08AM (#26738220)
There's been some talk in the US at the state level (esp. NY) but AFAIK the federal government has explicitly said they're not going to be getting into vaccine passports.
Re:Israel may have achieved herd immunity against Covid-19 by AzzieElbab on Thursday April 08, 2021 @08:55AM (#26738126)
These are independent things in bureaucracy. Here in Canada they are starting to talk about passports while vaccinations are under 2%
Re:Israel may have achieved herd immunity against Covid-19 by plank_time on Thursday April 08, 2021 @10:09AM (#26738851)
“Fully vaccinated” is meaningless. What matters is the first dose. After two weeks, regardless of the vaccine, the person has basically reached a high enough level of immunity to prevent getting sick and spreading the virus.
Re:Israel may have achieved herd immunity against Covid-19 by conradfr on Thursday April 08, 2021 @08:59AM (#26738146)
The virus as well.

edit: just look at the numbers