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Re:Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching... by jedberg on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @02:40PM (#26729096)
The Dutch have solved the kids/cargo problem. My friend lives in a suburb of Amsterdam. She has an electric assist bike with a cargo carrier. She uses it to carry kids and cargo, like groceries and such.

She used it to carry four kids (her three and one of mine) when we visited. We took the rented car and she beat us there.

Re:Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching... by analog31 on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @02:57PM (#26729356)
In my view, the most striking feature of the Dutch solution is that it's not a type of bike, but a transportation system developed over a span of years within a specific niche of climate, terrain, population density, and so forth. Cargo bikes came after the system was already up and running.

Moving any specific component of that system to another niche might help a little, and I'd welcome any progress, but is not a solution.

With that said, I'm a year around bike commuter. Cargo bikes, trailers, and baekfiets are gaining popularity in my locale, especially the electrics.

Re:Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching... by supertrope on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @07:11PM (#26732797)
People keep hoping for a technological solution to housing and transportation but the real answer is a big cultural and political shift toward apartments and walkable cities. On second thought that may be a heavier lift than self-driving cars.
Re:Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching... by analog31 on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @10:55PM (#26734590)
Indeed, and it's also at best a long term solution. Bikes are something that can appeal to individual agency: I can get a bike and start riding tomorrow. I can't build an apartment building.

Actually, it would be my 6th bike, but that's its own problem. ;-)

I'm spoiled by where I live now, a 25 minute easy bike ride to my workplace, a similar ride for my spouse, and within walking distance of shops. It's really a lifestyle changer.

Re:Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching... by twiddling on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @03:14PM (#26729645)
I actually have a picture of my Opa delivering bread in the 1920s with a cargo bike (bakfiets) in the Netherlands.
Re:Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching... by analog31 on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @03:34PM (#26729949)
That's really cool. I had no idea they went back that far.
Re:Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching... by twiddling on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @03:59PM (#26730346)
Re:Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching... by monkmartinez on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @06:41PM (#26732451)
How do I carry my kids and groceries in +100F(38c) or nearly freezing weather?
Re:Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching... by DoreenMichele on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @07:23PM (#26732936)
Backpack or cargo storage for the groceries. Kid seats or kiddie trailer for the kids.

I bicycled everywhere with a two year old in a kiddie seat until I was eight months pregnant. In Germany, which was almost as cold as Kansas at times.

Re:Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching... by wffurr on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @07:20PM (#26732901)
Dress for it and strap them on. It's not hard.
Re:Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching... by supertrope on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @07:13PM (#26732814)
Stay hydrated. Wear layers. Spend more time indoors. It's not like driving is a sweat free experience at 38C.
Re:Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching... by Dylan16807 on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @09:59PM (#26734211)
> It's not like driving is a sweat free experience at 38C.

It is if your car isn't a junker.

Re:Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching... by supertrope on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @10:02PM (#26734231)
38C is very hot. You'll be sweating in 5 min. Parking garages are generally not air conditioned. Cars don't cool down from 50C quickly. The sun stills shines on you through the windows.
Re:Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching... by Dylan16807 on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @10:25PM (#26734406)
You can start blasting cool air in your face almost immediately, and if the car is overheated you can roll down the windows and stand outside for a moment to purge the hot air. And if you only meant the first couple minutes of driving, I don't think that was very clear.

Remote start is cheap compared to the price of a car anyway, if it makes a difference.

Also the sun isn't significantly hotter in summer than in winter; it's not going to make you overheat.

Re:Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching... by howinteresting on Thursday April 08, 2021 @01:10AM (#26735283)
Many electric cars let you turn on climate control remotely. Do that a few minutes before getting in and you'll enjoy a cool (or warm) car.
Re:Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching... by selimthegrim on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @10:20PM (#26734370)
I had to drive an old Toyota through Llano Estacado at 44C when the fan and the AC had conked out. There was a lot of sticking my head out the window and dousing with water.
Re:Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching... by psychiatrist24 on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @06:48PM (#26732541)
Same way as in other weather.
Re:Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching... by africanboy on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @03:50PM (#26730175)
Netherlands is not a good benchmark for the rest of the World where altitude it's a thing

> The Vaalserberg is a hill with a height of 322.4 metres (1,058 ft) above NAP and is the highest point in mainland Netherlands

before anyone gets the wrong idea, the biggest problem is not going up, but going down (especially with kids, cargo or kids+cargo)

Re:Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching... by adrianN on Thursday April 08, 2021 @02:29AM (#26735726)
Electric bicycles are a thing now, as are strong brakes.
Re:Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching... by africanboy on Thursday April 08, 2021 @05:57AM (#26736935)
It's true, but it's not so simple.

Imagine that you live in Italy, where only 24% of the population lives in cities with a population equal or larger than 250 thousand people.

Half of Italy is not flat and it's very hard using the bicycles to move, unless you are already expert and even for bikers (as in motorbikes) it's challenging going up and down the hills and mountains and usually they go in group.

Paradoxically around Milan (and in the city) they use bikes a lot, but it's also one of the most polluted areas in Italy because they also use cars a lot to move from or to Milan and other large cities, mainly to go to work or it's trucks moving goods.

You can't replace them with bikes.

You can't replace them with trains either, because regional trains are already at full capacity and Milan public transport already moves 800 million people/year (fun fact: the Milan public transport company ATM also operates the Copenhagen's subway).

Being on flat lands surrounded by high mountains also means that there are no regular winds cleaning up the air, so paradoxically biking is more dangerous for your health.

23% of the Italian population (13 million people) lives in cities with a population between 20 thousand and 59,999 people, the majority of towns in Italy (20% - 1,509 of them) have a population between 1,000 and 1,999 people and host 2.5 million people.

Those are the areas where they can't give up on cars, they have no alternatives, they have to use it daily for every activity: from groceries to work, school, church, etc.

They are usually near highways or heavy traffic roads, because many people move daily to go to larger cities for work, but also the areas where biking it's more of a challenge.

So it's a combination of long distances (people live away from cities because housing it's much cheaper), geography and older population.

I present you a sample of the area where my parents come from.

https://www.juzaphoto.com/galleria.php?t=2681540&l=it

https://www.juzaphoto.com/galleria.php?t=2510258&l=it

https://www.juzaphoto.com/galleria.php?t=2510257&l=it

https://www.juzaphoto.com/galleria.php?t=2253636&l=it

https://www.juzaphoto.com/galleria.php?t=2129996&l=it

Re:Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching... by xiphias2 on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @04:10PM (#26730503)
Wasn't Netherlands where a big accident with many kids happened a few years ago?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45586492