Otherwise, agree with the thrust of your statement. I believe getting Signal into the hands of more users is an overall net good and if stickers are the answer then get to making some stickers.

I think we’re violently agreeing.

Except it's not, strong encryption and privacy emphasis goes against easy to use. I recently got my family to switch to Telegram (because I like the interface) - my sister works in an environment where she has to have a separate work phone without a camera and everything synced up out of the box, history, etc. Brother lost his phone - same thing, has chat histories and everything is back to normal. I use Telegram on desktop and mobile and it synces instantly.

Compare that to Signal, you don't even sync between active devices and you can forget about having old conversations on a new device. And just to give you a scope of how important messaging history to people is (I've seen people say nobody cares about IM history) - designer from work is lugging around her Android phone year after switching to iPhone just for WhatsApp history (it doesn't sync between OS-es).

> you don't even sync between active devices

I use Signal on a phone and a laptop, switching between the two frequently throughout the day and see the same conversations on both. (Edit: I realised you probably meant multiple phones, yes I see that's not yet supported.)

>and you can forget about having old conversations on a new device.

There's been a manual, secure transfer process between Android devices for years. More recently they've added an easy OTA transfer process for Android->Android, or iOS->iOS.

Here's the iOS announcement: https://signal.org/blog/ios-device-transfer/

I've had multiple issues with this before I gave up on Signal, it wouldn't show history when I initially paired up even when importing forever, then randomly stopped being connected and required me to pair again (losing everything on PC again)

> There's been a manual, secure transfer process between Android devices for years

Doesn't help much when you lose your phone.

I guess what I'm trying to say for most people the value of having your chat messages hosted in the cloud > security.

I have a smartphone that I control. I have a desktop computer that I control. I use an application on both computers that lets me send secure messages between device. The application somehow can sync new messages but refuses to let me import old ones. How insane is that? But apparently integrating with cryptocurrencies was above that in the todolist.

Signal is clearly a great protocol, but man is it seriously in need of a great implementation...

>But Marlinspike and Goldbard counter that Signal's new features won't give it any control of MobileCoin or turn it into a MobileCoin exchange, which might lead to more regulatory scrutiny. Instead, it will merely add support for spending and receiving it.

Oh, that's going to be a recipe for a great user experience again. You can send MobileCoin super easily... after you've gone on some crypto exchange platform to trade a highly speculative asset into one of your wallets. It's basically like Venmo indeed.

Stickers on the other hand are something that does attract many casual users and has no security implications.

Payment features... I think it's a bad idea for many different reasons but it might attract many users if it's not too complex.

Frequently messages aren't even synchronised between those two or they're out of order. Also, the desktop client itself is a bit of a joke.

I don't see how these relate. Signal isn't explicitly aimed at high security targets, although it works for them (seeing the Snowden endorsement). Signal is about bringing encryption to the masses. Making E2EE the default choice for everyone. Is is much more about mass surveillance. Your sister has a different threat model, one where they are also concerned about the physical device being compromised (i.e. stolen, hacked, or being physically accessed).

These are different threat models. For E2EE for the masses you need things like stickers and for it to be "fun" in addition to being a tool. In your sister's threat model she's more concerned about the tool over the fun part. It is a work phone after all (I mean this is why they take out the camera).

E2EE for the masses is pointless if you can't appeal to the masses. Cypher nerds will always have their fun toys to communicate with but we are also in dire need for something that prevents mass surveillance. That is, after all, one of the fundamental necessities of a democracy: being able to speak your mind without fear of government spying/involvement (this is the reason they got funding from Radio Free America in the past). Unfortunately this means some compromises need to be made. But as far as I'm concerned Signal has done far better than any service I've seen and the relative leak is near zero. The weak points are SGX and pins, which only hide some minor metadata (even fully leaked this would be better than WA or Telegram).

Signal should in theory also be able to just sync/backup everything to the desktop client, this would largely solve the inability to transfer between Android and iOS issue.

I don't understand why such basic quality of life improvements have yet to be implemented, especially since they are especially desirable for less technical users.

Yes there are sacrifices and trade offs for the security signal offers and it’s not 100% as convenient as Facebook messenger in that regard, but it’s also not 100% as cumbersome and impractical as GPG email. It strikes what I consider a decent balance of being secure and private and usable enough for non-technical users. Yes the message history story is lacking, I lost my messages moving iPhone to iPhone because I did it wrong and yeah it made me sad for a moment but I’m philosophical about it I guess. Dust to dust and all that.

Sadly, Signal's developers don't think trade offs exist

Facebook would have no trouble funding a basic iCloud-GDrive bridge if there was enough demand for it.

happening right now as a test

You can get away with this when you're the established player, but when you're the new guy every annoyance is a reason to revert to the previous app.

Of the three (WhatsApp, Telegram, Signal) I find WhatsApp to be the worst from a UX pov and Telegram the best. Personally, I find this exodus of users from WhatsApp to be a good thing even for no other reason than having to deal less with their UX.

Signal is not much better UX wise, but at least it gives hope of being better because they have to compete and because they are open source. If they fail to bad at growing the project or providing the infrastructure, someone will eventually fork and setup a separate network. WhatsApp has no pressure. It is in Facebooks interest to eventually migrate everyone to FB Messenger.

or just respect reasonable limits?

Does it make sense to destroy one feature for the illusion of having both?

Elements.io and telegram (to a much lesser extent) are safes. You place something there and it is locked. Signal, whatsapp, et al promise to be safes, but as soon as you place something, a hidden camera scan all the documents and print copies in a hidden printer at your home safe.

Would you trust that safe? would you still even call them safes? Yet some product manager/marketer convinced you that these are essential features for a "easy of use safe".

Telegram stores all history (except secret chats, which are a pain to use) server-side and effectively unencrypted.

The whole "not available in the US" messaging around MobileCoin, no doubt to avoid regulatory attention, gives this particular ponzi scheme a very nice ring.

I, for one, welcome this; the larger market is asking for a privacy-focused WhatsApp alternative, and Signal could be it.