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Re:New Zealand to open quarantine-free “travel bubble” with ... by dustinmoris on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @04:25AM (#26709437)
You also have no natural immunity. NZ did well but it must stay isolated until everyone has been vaccinated, because the population has effectively never seen COVID yet and therefore are where the rest of the world was more than a year ago.
Re:New Zealand to open quarantine-free “travel bubble” with ... by px1999 on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @04:46AM (#26709572)
FWIW, Australia had 23 local cases in the last month (an outbreak which resulted in a major city going into a snap lockdown).

Australia and NZ's risk profiles are different from pretty much anywhere else in the world right now. On that level, it's not a particularly reckless move.

That said, I understand the hesitation that a lot of people, particularly from NZ have. Our positions (both NZ and Australia's) have been hard earned, and one major slip up could make it all count for nothing.

Re:New Zealand to open quarantine-free “travel bubble” with ... by markdown on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @05:02AM (#26709670)
> Australia and NZ's risk profiles are different from pretty much anywhere else in the world right now.

Fiji hasn't had a single covid case in the wild in a year, with all our covid patients being detected in quarantine and isolated until recovery.

No bubble with us though. The Aussies get it first.

Re:New Zealand to open quarantine-free “travel bubble” with ... by px1999 on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @10:50PM (#26720065)
I'd personally be in favor of some sort of travel bubble within the pacific with other countries who share our low/zero local transmission (or at least to have a more lightweight quarantine process involved).

That said, my point was that opening NZ up to Australia (and vice versa) is a very different scenario to opening up to eg the US, France or the UK.

Re:New Zealand to open quarantine-free “travel bubble” with ... by roca on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @04:43AM (#26709548)
"Natural immunity" has been of little value at the country level. Whenever/wherever people have proclaimed that "natural immunity" is stemming the pandemic (e.g. Sweden last year, India this year) a new wave has proven them wrong.

So the pandemic will end for NZ the same way it will for every other country: when everyone has had a chance to be vaccinated. That should be some time this year for NZ. Some other countries will get there first, but the timing depends entirely on vaccine supply and uptake, and has nothing to do with how far COVID has spread through the population.

Re:New Zealand to open quarantine-free “travel bubble” with ... by rob74 on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @05:40AM (#26709918)
> when everyone has had a chance to be vaccinated

If that happens before a mutation spreads which renders the vaccines useless. And, seeing the pace at which vaccination is progressing in poorer countries, I'm not really optimistic about that. On the other hand, there is still hope that the vaccine will at least keep you from getting seriously sick if you get infected with a vaccine-resistant strain...

Re:New Zealand to open quarantine-free “travel bubble” with ... by roca on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @05:57AM (#26710008)
There is no reason to believe a mutation is going to render major vaccines useless. The real-life results of the mRNA vaccines against the major variants are very encouraging (see e.g. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/pfizer-says-trials-sugg...). Many of the scary lab results were only testing the virus against antibodies, not the full power of a vaccinated person's immune system.
Re:New Zealand to open quarantine-free “travel bubble” with ... by rob74 on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @06:34AM (#26710243)
I'm not saying the vaccines aren't effective against the current variants of concern, but the situation with part of the population vaccinated and mass transmission in the unvaccinated part of the population may favor the emergence of a new vaccine-resistant strain.

See also https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/06/global-rollout...

Re:New Zealand to open quarantine-free “travel bubble” with ... by _Microft on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @04:31AM (#26709479)
Which part of the world has "natural immunity" to Covid? The fraction of people who had Covid compared to those who had not is almost negligible almost everywhere?

Even if the case numbers (~140M worldwide) were underreported by 80% (i.e. that there are five times as many cases as we actually know about), it still would just amount to only roughly 10% of all people worldwide.

Re:New Zealand to open quarantine-free “travel bubble” with ... by Reason077 on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @04:39AM (#26709528)
> "Which part of the world has "natural immunity" to Covid? The fraction of people who had Covid compared to those who had not is almost negligible almost everywhere?"

It's been reported that more than half of the UK population now has Covid antibodies, either through recent infection or through vaccination:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/30/about-50-of-pe...

Re:New Zealand to open quarantine-free “travel bubble” with ... by Ichthypresbyter on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @05:32AM (#26709870)
The most recent Dutch data has 21% of blood donors with antibodies.

https://www.sanquin.nl/over-sanquin/nieuws/2021/03/corona-an...

Interestingly, the percentage is higher (26%) in the southern provinces of Limburg and Noord-Brabant, which were hit hardest by the first wave due to a combination of Carnival (only celebrated in those areas) and differently timed February school vacations.

Some of this probably is a vaccination effect- they've noticed that women were more likely to have antibodies than men, and more of the female donors were healthcare workers.

Re:New Zealand to open quarantine-free “travel bubble” with ... by midasuni on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @05:10AM (#26709730)
About 45% of the U.K. has had at least one vaccine shot
Re:New Zealand to open quarantine-free “travel bubble” with ... by _Microft on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @04:50AM (#26709595)
GP is clearly not talking about vaccinations.
Re:New Zealand to open quarantine-free “travel bubble” with ... by wk_end on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @05:04AM (#26709682)
covid19-projections.com (which has generally been quite good) estimates that ~a third of the US population has been infected with COVID. In South Dakota, which didn't institute any real restrictions, they estimate the number is close to ~50% [1].

Back in October - i.e. before the massive second wave most of the world saw over the winter - the WHO estimated that around 10% of the world's population had been infected with COVID [2]. It wouldn't be surprising at all if the number were substantially higher now.

The idea that case numbers are underreported by only 80% worldwide is extremely generous. That's pretty close to the CDC's estimate for the US (1 in 4.6) [3], and the US has per capita one of the most aggressive testing regimens in the world [4].

[1] https://covid19-projections.com/infections/us-sd

[2] https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2020-10-05/...

[3] https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burd...

[4] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104645/covid19-testing-...

Re:New Zealand to open quarantine-free “travel bubble” with ... by dustinmoris on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @04:41AM (#26709536)
> Which part of the world has "natural immunity" to Covid?

I didn't say that a part of the world has natural immunity, just said that nobody has natural immunity in NZ, which is where we were a year ago.

Besides that, negligible in which context? Many countries have already had double digit % of their population having had a COVID infection which might not be enough, but it's also not entirely negligible, since it means that any new wave would be less steep than the wave beforehand.

Re:New Zealand to open quarantine-free “travel bubble” with ... by fy20 on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @05:27AM (#26709828)
Purely annecdotal, however in my country it's double digit %, but I'd imagine the actual immunity is much higher because:

a) I know of quite a few families where one or two members tested positive, but others did not. If the virus spreads as easily as we think, then it's extremely unlikely that all of the family didn't have it at some point.

b) Most of the people I know who have tested positive have had mild symptoms, I expect there are a lot of people who were asymptomatic or had very mild symptoms and just thought it was a cold.

c) After 5 months of lockdown, most people have given up following the guidance about not meeting up privately and wearing masks inside if you do, but the case numbers haven't gone out of control.

This also doesn't take into account vacinnations. We are at around 14% so far, so I wouldn't be surprised if total immunity is close to 50%.