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Re:First known gene transfer from plant to insect identified by JPLeRouzic on Saturday March 27, 2021 @04:37AM (#26600908)
I would read the article as if the transfer was a a random event, :

But how the whitefly managed to swipe a plant gene is unclear. One possibility, says Turlings, is that a virus served as an intermediate, shuttling genetic material from a plant into the whitefly genome.

Re:First known gene transfer from plant to insect identified by ironmagma on Saturday March 27, 2021 @04:50AM (#26600950)
Right, but there’s a difference between random events causing biological changes vs. random mutations having to happen during reproduction/birth and proved out in the form of natural selection.
Re:First known gene transfer from plant to insect identified by yes_man on Saturday March 27, 2021 @05:15AM (#26601055)
From evolutionary point of view it is semantical why genome changed. Also I’ve never heard of any biology textbook or journal claiming mutations would only happen during reproduction or birth. Mutations happen all the time, that’s one reason we have diseases like cancer. Your reproductive cells can mutate any time throughout your life passing out differences to offspring. There is also genetic recombination bringing out traits that didn’t exist, or suppressing ones that do.
Re:First known gene transfer from plant to insect identified by andrewflnr on Saturday March 27, 2021 @09:37AM (#26602204)
Only mutations in sperm or egg can be passed on, so those are mainly the ones relevant to evolution.
Re:First known gene transfer from plant to insect identified by ironmagma on Saturday March 27, 2021 @01:41PM (#26603942)
It's hardly semantics. Many people over the past few hundred years have found it mind-bogglingly unlikely that organisms can evolve to be so purpose-built to survive in their environments if the only input driving that forward is the circumstances of their birth and the sheer number of organisms being produced. This study suggests that's not the only way these genetic changes happen, which makes the premise of evolution much less unlikely.
Re:First known gene transfer from plant to insect identified by webmaven on Saturday March 27, 2021 @11:36PM (#26607737)
> It's hardly semantics. Many people over the past few hundred years have found it mind-bogglingly unlikely that organisms can evolve to be so purpose-built to survive in their environments if the only input driving that forward is the circumstances of their birth and the sheer number of organisms being produced.

That's really just a failure of imagination. Also, it ignores that the mechanisms of evolution have themselves evolved.

Sure, evolution seems unlikely if you assume discrete genes have to change in lockstep to adjust traits successfully (eg. if you assume that separate changes are needed to adjust bones, muscles, skin, nerves, etc. to lengthen a limb), but that isn't how our bodies wirk (if it was, it would be nearly impossible to heal from an injury), nor is it how genes control that development.

Instead, you have genes that control things in less direct ways, such as body to limb ratio, and other genes that direct development of things like muscles in relation to bones and joints don't have to change at the same time for everything to keep working.

Even that's an overly simplified model, but you should get the general idea. You might like to read the book "The Plausibility of Life", which goes into more detail.

Re:First known gene transfer from plant to insect identified by flobosg on Saturday March 27, 2021 @02:55PM (#26604522)
The structural mutation described in the study likely happened as “circumstances of their birth”: a gene insertion in the germline genome.

> This study suggests that's not the only way these genetic changes happen

The study says nothing about the transfer mechanism, only that it took place.

Re:First known gene transfer from plant to insect identified by flobosg on Saturday March 27, 2021 @05:14AM (#26601054)
Not sure what you meant with that. This gene transfer event is a mutation and as such is also being subject to natural selection.
Re:First known gene transfer from plant to insect identified by shakow on Saturday March 27, 2021 @07:25AM (#26601512)
> there’s a difference between random events causing biological changes vs. random mutations having to happen during reproduction/birth

From an evolutionary perspective, there are none. Both are but sources of variation (the actual cause does not matter) in the genome; which, depending on their impact, may or may not get fixated by natural selection.

Re:First known gene transfer from plant to insect identified by gpvos on Saturday March 27, 2021 @05:26AM (#26601086)
The mutation is as random as any other kind, it's just a different mechanism.
Re:First known gene transfer from plant to insect identified by ironmagma on Saturday March 27, 2021 @01:43PM (#26603954)
Hence why I never said it wasn't random, specifically that it's not the random trial and error of genetic mutations at birth.