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Re:Factoring 2048 RSA integers in 177 days with 13436 qubits... by bdamm on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @10:07AM (#26555159)
Quantum computers exist today, they're just very low power, low gate counts, and extremely expensive. Don't discount it as magic just because of the claims. Scaling up QC would be like bringing mathematics to Mesopotamia. But it isn't "magic", it's physics.
Re:Factoring 2048 RSA integers in 177 days with 13436 qubits... by fractionalhare on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @11:22AM (#26556089)
The research in this field proceeds under the umbrella and framework of physics, yes. But it's not clear that it's possible to scale up to the number qubits required do anything nontrivial. It's plausible there are hard engineering limits on error correction which make it asymptotically more difficult with each order of magnitude more qubits involved.

It might not look that way because there's a lot of (relatively) mainstream investment in quantum computing. However it's pretty common for speculative physics research to be pursued for years without ever coming to fruition. Especially when there are promising early results before it's shown that scaling the work reduces to an intractable problem.

Re:Factoring 2048 RSA integers in 177 days with 13436 qubits... by reikonomusha on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @11:52AM (#26556474)
I think it’s reasonable to be more optimistic than you put it. Qubit counts and qubit fidelity have been increasing at a remarkable rate. Just five years ago we could barely eek out a handful of qubits, and when we did, they’d be bad. Google’s quantum supremacy result is a testament to that. (At this stage, whether they actually demonstrated the “supreme” part of supremacy is, imho, irrelevant. They’ve demonstrated a much larger, controllable, programmable quantum computer and measured its quality characteristics accurately.)

Of course, I’m saying it’s reasonable to be more optimistic, not that we have a proof we will certainly be able to scale to enormous machine sizes. But it’s definitely more than “speculative physics”: real machines have been built and demonstrated to exhibit truly measurable quantum effects that allow for programmable computation.

(To be sure, there is hype, there is a lot of cash sloshing around, and there are totally bogus claims some companies are publicly making.)

Re:Factoring 2048 RSA integers in 177 days with 13436 qubits... by mirekrusin on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @07:01PM (#26561453)
The argument here is that reducing error rate/supporting error correction may be exponentially difficult, a bit like increasing clock frequency is now in classical computers.
Re:Factoring 2048 RSA integers in 177 days with 13436 qubits... by oldgradstudent on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @03:39PM (#26559412)
> They’ve demonstrated a much larger, controllable, programmable quantum computer

No they didn't. Not in any meaningful sense.

How exactly what that machine does can be called a "computation"? in what sense is it "programmable"?

Re:Factoring 2048 RSA integers in 177 days with 13436 qubits... by mikewave on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @03:49PM (#26559542)
Admittedly, it's not a gate-model system, but at D-Wave we've been able to scale up to 5,000+ qubits now, and the future is promising for further advancements in qubit count, noise, and other advanced features.

The gate-model systems have shown that they are pursuing a much more difficult path, one that may indeed be fruitless for years or decades before they can approach our raw qubit count. We also have examples of nontrivial, paying-customer use cases that become more compelling with each new announcement. Factoring integers is indeed an interesting hard problem which would have a massive (negative?) impact on the world if realized, but besides Shor's and Grover's algorithms, it's not like gate-model QPUs have a ton of use cases significantly better than what a quantum annealer can accomplish.

I like to think of it this way: we're basically at the point of an ENIAC scale machine, if you liken quantum computing progress to classical computing. Fills up a room, very specific environmental and power requirements, little or no "memory" to speak of, esoteric and hard for anyone without years of training to master. Only a few decades later, the state of the art machine was thousands of times more capable, far cheaper and smaller, more reliable, more accessible in every way. Imagine describing the Internet as we use it today to an ENIAC operator, or a speculative investor considering IBM, Honeywell, etc. - it would sound like an impossible, Asimovesque dream, not something that children would literally be playing with sixty years later.

The only difference is that so far, we don't really seem to have a real exponential Moore's Law effect in quantum computing. Google et al. still have very low numbers of qubits without any real promise that they'll be able to deliver more of them in any consistent timeframe. At D-Wave we've done better on the scaling front, and we've been trying to keep up to our former founder's "Rose's Law" of qubit scale growth, but fabrication is an incredibly expensive, complicated, competitive endeavour that necessitates incredible quality control in order to produce processors that are up to spec. There are also other factors beyond the raw qubit count; the bigger advantage in our latest Advantage chip may actually be the higher connectivity between qubits on the graph, rather than their raw number.

Of course, we expect that we'll continue to push the envelope in this regard, and given enough time and investment, some of the early applications we're seeing now may well eventually be integrated into large scale products people use every day.

Re:Factoring 2048 RSA integers in 177 days with 13436 qubits... by caf on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @09:09PM (#26562359)
Saying "besides Grover's algorithm" strikes me as sort of an "All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?" sort of qualification. Grover's is pretty widely applicable, isn't it?
Re:Factoring 2048 RSA integers in 177 days with 13436 qubits... by klodolph on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @02:56PM (#26558830)
I thought the Quantum threshold theorem said that it was possible to scale up quantum computers as much as you like? Or am I misinterpreting it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_threshold_theorem

Re:Factoring 2048 RSA integers in 177 days with 13436 qubits... by gallerdude on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @10:14AM (#26555254)

  ...would be like bringing mathematics to Mesopotamia.
Can you expound on this? What sort of breakthroughs are bottlenecked by developments in quantum computing?
Re:Factoring 2048 RSA integers in 177 days with 13436 qubits... by _hl_ on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @10:44AM (#26555642)
The hope is that quantum computers will give us an exponential speed up on some problems, which could (again, hopefully) allow us to solve some NP hard problems. This can be extremely useful for scientific computing (e.g. protein folding) and engineering, where computers have to solve complex NP-hard optimisation problems.

It could also be possible to use the technology developed for the precise control and measurement of qubits to "rebuild" natural phenomena like the interaction of chemical molecules, something which is currently extremely hard to simulate.

Re:Factoring 2048 RSA integers in 177 days with 13436 qubits... by syrrim on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @11:13AM (#26555989)
>which will allow us to solve some NP hard problems

No it won't

Re:Factoring 2048 RSA integers in 177 days with 13436 qubits... by bollu on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @12:23PM (#26556838)
> No it won't

We don't know either way. relationship between BPP, BQP, P, NP are all open.

Re:Factoring 2048 RSA integers in 177 days with 13436 qubits... by f6v on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @02:30PM (#26558446)
Could you elaborate?
Re:Factoring 2048 RSA integers in 177 days with 13436 qubits... by azatris on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @10:21AM (#26555346)
I do not know much about quantum computing. But could you explain what makes these computers quantum? Is it the configuration of these transistors to invoke some quantum phenomena?
Re:Factoring 2048 RSA integers in 177 days with 13436 qubits... by antepodius on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @10:32AM (#26555493)
In a classical computer, every bit of information in the system is in a definite state- 1 or 0. In a quantum system with such definite possible states, what you actually have most of the time of the system in some interpolation of the possible states- so in the quantum computer case each bit is usually in a state a1 + b0, where a and b are complex numbers such that |a^2|+|b^2| = 1.

Most of the time, the 'weight' flows back and forth between a and b according to certain equations over time. When you measure the system- that is, when the bit interacts with the outside world, hopefully your measuring apparatus- you see a 1 or a 0, with probabilities |a^2| and |b^2| respectively.

So what you can do is get a whole bunch of these quantum bits- qubits together, and set things up so that the time-evolution of their quantum state is correlated and probabilistically moves towards something you're interested in. Say you can set things up so the bit array- which, at first, will give you a mere perfectly random bit string on measurement- becomes more and more likely to give you, say, a prime factor, or the answer to some other question.

So yes, the quantum phenomenon is that the bits of the computer are quantum objects as opposed to classical.

Re:Factoring 2048 RSA integers in 177 days with 13436 qubits... by ledauphin on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @02:52PM (#26558758)
this is the most comprehensible entry-level description of quantum computers I've ever read. thank you.

(qubits I've seen explained many times, but setting things up so that qubits are probabilistically correlated is the part I've never understood anyone else to be saying)

Re:Factoring 2048 RSA integers in 177 days with 13436 qubits... by freeone3000 on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @10:31AM (#26555476)
They're built off fundamentally different basic units. Contemporary computers use transistors, which occupy traditional physics and do logic with voltage thresholds. Quantum computers use a quantum phenomenon -- one easy-to-understand (and fairly easy to construct) quantum computer substrate uses the spin of electrons in superconducting loops. Electron spin is a quantum phenomenon, in that the spin isn't deterministically positive or negative, it's a probability distribution -- initially, equally likely to be positive or negative, but you can't tell what it is until you actually read it. It's not 0.0, it's either -0.5 or 0.5, both with a 50% chance. Equally importantly, you can perform (physical) operations on electrons singly or in pairs in order to manipulate these probabilities. Quantum computing is turning these probability fields and operations into useful computational results.
Re:Factoring 2048 RSA integers in 177 days with 13436 qubits... by azatris on Wednesday March 24, 2021 @06:50PM (#26574029)
This is exactly what I wanted to hear! Awesome, thank you!
Re:Factoring 2048 RSA integers in 177 days with 13436 qubits... by DarmokJalad1701 on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @01:00PM (#26557270)
Here is a long-ish video that explains quantum computers without using pop-science hand-wavy terminology

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_Riqjdh2oM

Re:Factoring 2048 RSA integers in 177 days with 13436 qubits... by _hl_ on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @10:35AM (#26555532)
A quantum computer is defined as a machine that can implement an arbitrary "unitary evolution" (up to arbitrary precision). If you don't know enough math to understand what a unitary evolution is, think of it as a quantum computer doing basically any possible thing that you can do with a given number of qubits. As another comment said, the idea is to (ab)use this to do some operations on qubits such that they end up in a state where measuring it will give you an answer to something you're interested in. It has very little to do with classical programming.

The math on quantum computers checks out, it's "just" an engineering challenge at this point, and many are doubtful whether these challenges will ever be overcome to build a quantum computer of sufficient complexity.

Essentially, some "unitary evolutions" are complex to implement, as in requiring a lot of quantum "gates". This causes an accumulation of error and a whole lot of other problems, which limits the complexity of the calculations that can currently be performed.

Re:Factoring 2048 RSA integers in 177 days with 13436 qubits... by rnestler on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @10:26AM (#26555420)
> they're just very low power,

I guess you meant to write high power as in high electrical power consumption? Or low power in the sense of low processing power? Anyway: Performance per Watt is probably pretty bad for current quantum computers ;)

Re:Factoring 2048 RSA integers in 177 days with 13436 qubits... by RIMR on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @10:49AM (#26555712)
"Processing power" is colloquially the term most people I know use to describe computers of varying capabilities.
Re:Factoring 2048 RSA integers in 177 days with 13436 qubits... by ereli1 on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @10:00PM (#26562708)
Re:Factoring 2048 RSA integers in 177 days with 13436 qubits... by jMyles on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @03:41PM (#26559435)
> would be like bringing mathematics to Mesopotamia

I don't think I understand this metaphor.