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Re:“When it comes to broadband, America is the original shit... by odiroot on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @06:28AM (#26553269)
Has Mr Doctorow ever visited the DACH region?
Re:“When it comes to broadband, America is the original shit... by intellirogue on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @06:34AM (#26553310)
I'm living in Germany, and coming from NZ (where we have fairly universal 1Gbps FTTH) it has certainly been a big step down, but it can't compare to some of the insanity that my US friends deal with.
Re:“When it comes to broadband, America is the original shit... by robert_foss on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @06:50AM (#26553433)
I live in central Berlin, and it is is downright embarrassing, internet access in Germany is terrible. 10 years ago I had 1Gbps fiber in Sweden.

For reference I have 400/20 Cable, for 44Eur/m. No caps. Provider Pyur. Overall medium terrible experience.

Re:“When it comes to broadband, America is the original shit... by intellirogue on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @07:04AM (#26553543)
Also in central Berlin with the same speed connection. But my friends in the US, both in major metropolitan areas, can only dream of such a connection.

One has no option but ADSL which reaches 8Mbps on a good day, the other is luckier and has Cable but only 100Mbps.

Re:“When it comes to broadband, America is the original shit... by MaxBarraclough on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @07:23AM (#26553690)
> only 100Mbps

What use would you have for throughput in excess of 100Mbps?

Re:“When it comes to broadband, America is the original shit... by rhino369 on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @01:50PM (#26557945)
I’ve had 900 mbit an 100 mbit and there is barely any practical difference.

And like 1/10 houses are actually networked well enough to even use a 300 mbit connect.

The only practical difference I’ve seen is upload. Cable internet is usually slow enough to impact actual use.

Re:“When it comes to broadband, America is the original shit... by CaptainZapp on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @07:29AM (#26553752)
It's nice when you want to download RDR2 on Steam.
Re:“When it comes to broadband, America is the original shit... by MaxBarraclough on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @08:30AM (#26554234)
Sure, but how many times a year does something like that crop up? Personally I don't mind leaving a vast download like that to run overnight. On a related note, software updates run in the background, so whether it takes a minute or an hour makes little difference. Same for automated backup.

I very rarely have use for capacity beyond 40Mbps, or perhaps even 25. 4K streaming is as demanding as it gets. If 40Mbps is appreciably cheaper than 100, I'll take 40.

If your Internet connection can't handle video chat and streaming, then you're right to say you don't have a decent modern Internet connection, and it's holding back what you can do. Capacity beyond 40Mbps, though, is rarely of any real consequence.

(I mean this in the particular context of home broadband, of course.)

Re:“When it comes to broadband, America is the original shit... by CaptainZapp on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @08:40AM (#26554305)
Sure, it's rare enough that you download to such excess.

But the thing is that thanks to fiber there's hardly any difference price wise. So why not use it, when it's on offer?

Before that I had 100Mb up and down and was pretty happy with it. Large games could be a bit of a drag. Especially when GTA5 became available and I wanted to play it right now!

Re:“When it comes to broadband, America is the original shit... by MaxBarraclough on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @08:44AM (#26554344)
> Especially when GTA5 became available and I wanted to play it right now!

Once the JSON parses, that is ;-P

Re:“When it comes to broadband, America is the original shit... by robert_foss on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @04:03PM (#26559716)
Running a CI, checking out repositories, doing backups, etc.

I've had 1Gbps before, and it was fantastic.

Re:“When it comes to broadband, America is the original shit... by MaxBarraclough on Wednesday March 24, 2021 @08:11AM (#26566132)
Does your CI really require extremely high bandwidth? Doesn't caching resolve this?

Checking out repositories is a rare event. It's even rarer to check out repositories weighing tens of gigabytes, such that throughput in excess of 100Mbps is noticeable.

As I said in my reply to CaptainZapp, it's generally fine if a background process like a backup takes several hours, and that's just for the few people who need to backup tens of gigabytes of data to the Internet every day. For everyone else, 100Mbps is far more than enough.

For most home users in particular, capacity beyond 40Mbps rarely brings any benefit.

Re:“When it comes to broadband, America is the original shit... by johnchristopher on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @01:24PM (#26557577)
Agency PDF, clients videos to review, things that take less time to watch than to download.
Re:“When it comes to broadband, America is the original shit... by MaxBarraclough on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @02:00PM (#26558067)
As I already said in my reply to CaptainZapp, 40Mbps is more than enough to stream 4K video, and it's rare to need to quickly download tens of gigabytes of data.

If you want to run several 4K streams at once, you'll need more than 40Mbps. I don't think many households have this requirement though.

Re:“When it comes to broadband, America is the original shit... by johnchristopher on Wednesday March 24, 2021 @03:32AM (#26564466)
I don't stream PDFs, I don't stream reels, I don't stream PPTs, I don't stream WeTransfer.
Re:“When it comes to broadband, America is the original shit... by MaxBarraclough on Thursday March 25, 2021 @09:54AM (#26580286)
PDFs are small files. 40Mbps is way more than enough for that. Same for PPTs.

If you're regularly dealing with huge video files, then sure, you may be in the small minority that really does benefit from an extremely fast connection.

Re:“When it comes to broadband, America is the original shit... by johnchristopher on Thursday March 25, 2021 @05:30PM (#26585647)
No, a 200Mbytes PDF file is not small. Especially when it's sent on the spot by a participant in a zoom meeting. I don't want to wait 2 minutes, I want to have it as soon as I click the download link.

And yes I regularly have PDFs and PPTs of that size (thank you web agencies that keep on sending 20 pages product kit with 8K background pictures).

I do agree it's overkill and we all could do without if we prepared better but that's how it is.

Re:“When it comes to broadband, America is the original shit... by Symbiote on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @07:40AM (#26553827)
> For reference I have 400/20 Cable, for 44Eur/m

That's not too bad, is it? Sweden has had world-leading broadband for a decade, and your upload could be higher, but "downright embarrassing" is people stuck on a 24Mbit ADSL connection.

(I have 300/30 Mbit/s cable for 340DKK = 45€. I could upgrade to 1000/500 Mbit/s fibre for ... actually only 320DKK, but I haven't bothered.)

Re:“When it comes to broadband, America is the original shit... by ChuckNorris89 on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @06:57AM (#26553489)
Jan Böhmermann (Germany's John Oliver) did an investigation on his show[1] into Germany's terrible internet infrastructure and proved it's basically down to corruption from Kohl's regime that scrapped the fiber plans for copper in order to enrich a certain friendly company with political ties that was big in the copper business back then.

[1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDNYS_4dkAc

Re:“When it comes to broadband, America is the original shit... by ng55QPSK on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @07:04AM (#26553540)
And for 40 years they could not change? Fiber is comming close and close to homes every year as it's needed for FTTC (and doing vectoring on DSL for the last 400m) and for DOCSIS on coaxial cables.
Re:“When it comes to broadband, America is the original shit... by ChuckNorris89 on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @07:11AM (#26553595)
>And for 40 years they could not change?

Of course they 'could', but that would mean for corruption to have gone down and political competence to have gone up in those 40 years but unfortunately it hasn't, quite the opposite.

In Germany, high level corruption and political incompetence has only increased in that time (see BER airport, VW emissions scandal, and the handling of COVID).

Basically if you're well connected and rich, you're untouchable in Germany and your corruption mishaps will be swept under the rug as casual political 'whoopsies' right after you retire to a gold plated pension.

Re:“When it comes to broadband, America is the original shit... by CaptainZapp on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @07:31AM (#26553769)
Well, quite a number of politicians got shitcanned after it turned that their dissertations were plagiarized.

So it's not that you're completely untouchable. Even with friends in high places.

Re:“When it comes to broadband, America is the original shit... by tchocky on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @07:51AM (#26553920)
Germany privatised telecommunication in the 90s (was done by German Post before) including all the infrastructure (which was a really bad idea in hindsight). Most of the infrastructure is in the hand of the former state business and they want to squeeze the last Euro out of the copper wiring instead of investing in proper fiber infrastructure. Vectoring is just one more tool to squeeze the last bit out of old copper wires that have been in the ground for over 70 years. Also vectoring only works with one provider per node, and the German state gives most of the privilege to the Telekom.

It was written in some comments before, but Germany could have had the most modern fiber infrastructure in the world when the plans of former chancellor Helmut Schmitt wouldn't have been stopped by the Helmut Kohl government who was good friends with Leo Kirch, who was a big player in the German TV market and would rather benefit from copper wiring than fiber.

Re:“When it comes to broadband, America is the original shit... by ceejayoz on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @06:56AM (#26553482)
200/5 runs $80/month here (upstate NY, USA), and I’m in a “good” broadband spot for my area.
Re:“When it comes to broadband, America is the original shit... by masklinn on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @06:47AM (#26553407)
A friend just moved to Switzerland, laid down a full fiber lan because that’s what they’re getting as broadband.

Salt offers 10Gb symmetrical for 50 CHF.

Re:“When it comes to broadband, America is the original shit... by robert_foss on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @06:49AM (#26553420)
cries softly
Re:“When it comes to broadband, America is the original shit... by StavrosK on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @06:52AM (#26553451)
tears buffering...
Re:“When it comes to broadband, America is the original shit... by ChuckNorris89 on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @06:37AM (#26553333)
Only internet in the DA area sucks, CH has pretty good, if expensive, internet in the cities.
Re:“When it comes to broadband, America is the original shit... by bauerd on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @06:36AM (#26553327)
I live in a German state capital, one stop away from central station. Best I can get is 50 Mbit/s.
Re:“When it comes to broadband, America is the original shit... by piva00 on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @06:48AM (#26553411)
German internet infrastructure drives me crazy when I visit. I live in Sweden and broadband here is really good, both mobile and land-based ones, whenever I go to a major German city (München, Berlin, Frankfurt, Hamburg) I suffer with 4G, I suffer with my friends' or offices' internet connection. It's not even the slowness that bothers me more, it's the spottiness: 4G signals dropping to 3G and depending on the area even to 2G (haven't seen this happen the last time I visited in 2019 but definitely saw it before).

Home broadband have issues that the operator can't solve quickly (once working from home at a friend's place we got the house apartment internet cut off for a couple of days), Telekom sucks, their customer support sucks, sending a technician can take a month or more sometimes.

It feels so damn backwards, even more for the largest economy in the EU, not investing in digitalisation (both infrastructure and public services) is gonna bite Germany's ass for the next decade. Can't believe most bureaucracy is still done through paper-based mail, or faxes.

Re:“When it comes to broadband, America is the original shit... by tubularhells on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @06:55AM (#26553471)
The Big T in Germany has strong ties in the government, both regional and central. They don't have to innovate when they can just block others via lobbying.

Ex Telekom worker here.

Re:“When it comes to broadband, America is the original shit... by jmkerr on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @09:24AM (#26554658)
This is not surprising for a ex-government agency that is still substantially government owned. Somewhat anti-competitive, expensive, and they clearly have no sense of urgency with regard to fibre.

But more than half their revenue is now from the US Market, which they didn't enter in such a privileged position.

Anyway, 100% of Germany to be covered with FTTH by 2030 :)

https://www.telekom.com/resource/blob/619512/394bebe64a0f87d...

Re:“When it comes to broadband, America is the original shit... by lycopodiopsida on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @11:48AM (#26556435)
I have in a 140k city 500/50, up to 1000/50 are possible. No caps, 47 EUR/month. It is not stellar, but certainly more than enough for my needs.

I would say Germany was hurt a lot though the de-facto monopoly of the Telekom and DSL, relying on copper wires. Telekom had even after privatisation a monopoly on the last mile and 0 motivation to invest. It is only when the internet over TV Cable became popular, they started to panic. They are still offering 250/50 DSL in some areas, but only if there is no TV Cable vendor. Otherwise they have no chance it is a lost battle for them. In my are DSL is only 16/2,4 because why bother to upgrade? They are not competitive.

Other problem in Germany is that the landlord decides which providers he lets in his house - it is usually one and only one TV Cable vendor, if multiple vendors are operating in the area.

Re:“When it comes to broadband, America is the original shit... by ng55QPSK on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @06:59AM (#26553507)
What impact should the central station have?

I work in the communication industry and we call this "A problem that can be solved by money" - while on wireless we have "Problems based on the law of physics".

Re:“When it comes to broadband, America is the original shit... by blfr on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @07:02AM (#26553529)
In Eurasia railway companies often run fibre because they already have rights to the tracks. More importantly, one stop from a central station is basically city centre with high population density.
Re:“When it comes to broadband, America is the original shit... by ng55QPSK on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @07:06AM (#26553561)
So? We have fully developed fiber networks everywhere in EU, but the last 500m ... 200m to every building is expensive (this about tree structures).
Re:“When it comes to broadband, America is the original shit... by blfr on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @07:10AM (#26553589)
But it's less expensive per subscriber (and therefore more profitable and more expected to be delivered) when you have higher pop density.
Re:“When it comes to broadband, America is the original shit... by ng55QPSK on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @07:32AM (#26553781)
It only looks to you like less expensive. Opening a street inner city and put something in the ground gets more and more expensive (think factors) the higher the building density and 'other things in the ground' get.

I recommend to start a business if YOU know how to keep the investment down.

Re:“When it comes to broadband, America is the original shit... by blfr on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @07:43AM (#26553856)
This is really not some controversial discovery. Providers already know this and take full advantage. It's common for multi-tenants buildings to be wired by 2-3 ISPs and even nearby single family housing to have only one with serious installation costs on top.

Barring regulatory failure, providers don't even need to "open a street" precisely because of the other installations that already exist where wires can be run alongside.

Re:“When it comes to broadband, America is the original shit... by coldtea on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @07:15AM (#26553631)
>What impact should the central station have?

It would be a major destination, so one would expect fast cables to be laid out there (and be available in the close area). That's the case with important areas where I live at least.

Re:“When it comes to broadband, America is the original shit... by robert_foss on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @06:54AM (#26553466)
Even new buildings in central Berlin are being built without Fiber, which is pretty hard comprehend.
Re:“When it comes to broadband, America is the original shit... by CaptainZapp on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @07:28AM (#26553742)
I have 10GB up and down.

The whole city of Zurich is fibered (mostly built by the public power utility) and you're free to chose between a variety of suppliers.

Re:“When it comes to broadband, America is the original shit... by justinclift on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @08:29AM (#26554228)
Interesting. Sounds like people there could setup a bunch of racks in a spare room and provide co-location services to their friends?
Re:“When it comes to broadband, America is the original shit... by CaptainZapp on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @08:37AM (#26554281)
Maybe to clarify: Not every home is necessarily attached to fiber. That's still up to the landlord / renter.

Swisscom had a really sweet deal a few years ago (when only parts of the city had fiber), where they paid for the home installation as long as you signed up for 12 month or longer.

Bin there ever since (not always with that speed, initially it was something like 100 up and down. GB fiber was still pretty expensive) and never regretted it.