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Re:DARPA now has AI-controlled F-16s working as a team in vi... by skissane on Monday March 22, 2021 @11:28PM (#26550734)
> Or the AI would suggest attacking unacceptable non-military targets, or inflict collateral damage

I would expect the people who wrote the AI would impose on it constraints to avoid this – to be useful in the real world, an AI has to comply with the same constraints that real world military commanders have to follow, and the laws of war are among those (certainly if we are talking about the US military.)

(A realistic risk is that it might interpret those rules differently than a human would – maybe in an overly pedantic manner – and its overly pedantic readings of the rules might give human commanders cover or encouragement to engage in the same harmful pedantry.)

> or suggest nuking the enemy as a first strike

I doubt they'd even give an AI that option to consider. Realistically if you are a US military commander – in Afghanistan or Iraq or Syria or wherever the US might intervene next – that's not an option on the menu. The decision to use nuclear weapons only comes from the very top, and the very top will only consider it in utterly dire circumstances.

To be actually a useful tool to military commanders, you want an AI which suggests to them strategies they might not have thought of, or which gives them a reasoned opinion on which of the various options they are considering is most advisable. A useful AI tells them how to use the resources they have, and nuclear weapons are not–in normal circumstances–an available resource to US military operations.

Re:DARPA now has AI-controlled F-16s working as a team in vi... by Teever on Monday March 22, 2021 @11:51PM (#26550890)
> I would expect the people who wrote the AI would impose on it constraints to avoid this

The devil is in the details.

What if the AI decides that the course of action that leads to the desired outcome of winning the conflict is to kill civilians but it is also aware that outright killing civilians is against the law or will be ignored by the decision making human so it instead decides to recommend a series of strikes that indirectly lead to a large famine which results in the death of the civilians and winning the conflict?

Who is to blame there? Is this outcome desirable?

Re:DARPA now has AI-controlled F-16s working as a team in vi... by mpalmer on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @12:10AM (#26551011)
They sort of address this -

"To be actually a useful tool to military commanders, you want an AI which [...] gives them a reasoned opinion on which of the various options they are considering is most advisable."

With that (far more sophisticated) AI system, leadership could just de-prioritize options with excessive risk of civilian casualty.

Re:DARPA now has AI-controlled F-16s working as a team in vi... by skissane on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @12:14AM (#26551035)
The other day I was looking at this – http://www.datalex.org/ [0] – presented with a situation, it asks you questions about it, and then generates a legal opinion on your situation. It shows all its reasoning (in natural language) to arrive at that legal opinion. That's the same basic thing a human advisor does – if you get a formal legal opinion from a lawyer, it doesn't just give you the conclusion, it also explains the arguments and reasoning and considerations it used to arrive at that conclusion.

So I don't see why a strategic military advice platform couldn't do the same basic thing.

[0] Here's a working example: http://beta.datalex.org/app/?rulebase=http://austlii.communi...

Re:DARPA now has AI-controlled F-16s working as a team in vi... by dorgo on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @01:29PM (#26557647)
It sound more like a prolog program. It takes a set of rules and facts and can infer other facts from there and show you all the steps of the process. Although it is a branch of AI it is not what one thinks of nowdays hearing the term AI. One thinks of some fancy powerful self learning black box, which can do miracles but can't explain how it does it.
Re:DARPA now has AI-controlled F-16s working as a team in vi... by Teever on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @12:29AM (#26551134)
I'll rephrase what I'm saying.

What if the AI lies?

What if the AI lies and civilians die because of it?

Re:DARPA now has AI-controlled F-16s working as a team in vi... by adrianN on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @12:57AM (#26551288)
I think we're pretty far away from the kind of AI that could intentionally trick its operators to achieve a goal.
Re:DARPA now has AI-controlled F-16s working as a team in vi... by FeepingCreature on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @12:22AM (#26551087)
Giving a reasoned opinion is a huge unsolved problem in AI.
Re:DARPA now has AI-controlled F-16s working as a team in vi... by mpalmer on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @09:20AM (#26554613)
Yes, and I referred to that hypothetical AI as "far more sophisticated".
Re:DARPA now has AI-controlled F-16s working as a team in vi... by duxup on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @12:31AM (#26551143)
>What if the AI decides that the course of action that leads to the desired outcome of winning the conflict is to kill civilians

I always figured that was what happened in the film Colossus: The Forbin Project, the computer(s) found a way to ensure / prevent a nuclear war / peace, by taking control of the nuclear arsenals on their own and ensuring peace via their own threat of nuclear weapons.

Re:DARPA now has AI-controlled F-16s working as a team in vi... by numpad0 on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @03:33AM (#26552098)
> the desired outcome of winning the conflict

Requires political victory. War is extension of politics, not alien invasion defense.

Thus, a planning AI that can handle tactical targeting task but can’t handle politics probably “can’t war” going by definitions.

Re:DARPA now has AI-controlled F-16s working as a team in vi... by ghi5goio3qno4i3 on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @12:26AM (#26551110)
Just a really dumb thought.

1) A military commander programs an AI squadron with the parameters of destroying a heavily defended military target with the parameters of minimizing casualties.

2) The AI veers the bombers 180 degrees off course and attacks a nearby town, purposely and irreparably destroying the only hospitals and drinking water production facilities in the region. Thousands of civilians are killed, and the loss of fresh water will cause many more casualties in the following weeks as people are no longer able to get drinking water. No military targets are hit.

3) The AI is examined. The reason it attacked the town is unclear but it is determined that it was not a malfunction or sabotage.

Given that.... was a war crime actually committed?

The AI cannot commit a crime, it's not a person. The people that ordered the attack specified that it should be attacking a valid military target. The people that created the AI certainly didn't intentionally put any mechanism in there to have the AI purposely commit war crimes.

Given that, is it an actual crime? Or would it be closer to something like a natural disaster?

...to be clear I'm not a bright guy so I've probably missed something obvious...

Re:DARPA now has AI-controlled F-16s working as a team in vi... by freeone3000 on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @12:49AM (#26551248)
The US Military has a policy that a human must be in the loop for every weapons firing in order for to avoid this very moral hazard.
Re:DARPA now has AI-controlled F-16s working as a team in vi... by rorykoehler on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @12:44AM (#26551217)
The AI doesn't need to actually control anything. It could just work as an advisor.
Re:DARPA now has AI-controlled F-16s working as a team in vi... by stefan_ on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @07:51AM (#26553922)
You haven't actually spent any time with optimization algorithms, have you? The grandparent is on point: on problems as totally ill specified as this one, you have a choice of nonsensical, yet valid suggestions or death by 1001 constraints (which just ends up being you spelling out the solution, and the AI repeating).
Re:DARPA now has AI-controlled F-16s working as a team in vi... by beambot on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @01:18AM (#26551381)
Until the AI finds the backdoor authorization: For 20 Years the Nuclear Launch Code at US Minuteman Silos Was 00000000

https://gizmodo.com/for-20-years-the-nuclear-launch-code-at-...