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Re:The absolute worst scenario happened by scandox on Monday March 22, 2021 @08:18AM (#26539762)
How people handle this level of disaster is always very revealing. In every case I've ever experienced someone kept their head and a solution was found. Usually there was reputational damage but surprisingly most times the actual business bounced back. But it was always the actions of someone in particular in those first hours that made the difference.

Thinking you're fucked is unhelpful, because you start talking about resumes and expecting some deus ex machina to appear and resolve the situation (for good or ill).

Re:The absolute worst scenario happened by 4e530344963049 on Monday March 22, 2021 @08:39AM (#26539973)
If you have been that person before, it can be fun and exciting to think up solutions and implement them under pressure. Definitely a real test in your ability to concentrate. But don't expect the credit you deserve for it, and don't even expect others to even bother to put in any effort towards fixing things.

Also, make sure everyone knows you are going on vacation once you resolve things.

Re:The absolute worst scenario happened by paulz_ on Monday March 22, 2021 @08:54AM (#26540120)
These types of situations always wind up being the most fun I have at work and leave me feeling most fulfilled. I wish I could do that all day instead of going to standups.
Re:The absolute worst scenario happened by mattlondon on Monday March 22, 2021 @12:13PM (#26542832)
Constant "emergencies" soon wear you down.

Sure it is fun, but the stakes can be high and the stress gets piled on.

It starts with congratulations all-round. You are a hero! Good job! Nice save! Your boss's boss's boss's boss comes over and thanks you personally. Take the rest of the week off!

Later, its people asking when will you fix it? Why haven't you got this back working yet? Didn'y you fix the same thing last month? (no) We really need you to fix this before 5pm or the TPS reports wont go out, and the management will be pissed.

Failures become normalised. They get reliant on people doing heroics. People forget that the systems are crap and need investment, and start to rely on you being there to fix it, and if things don't get fixed then it is your fault the TPS reports didn't go out, not tech-debt/lack-of-investment/bad-design/whatever.

Re:The absolute worst scenario happened by ido on Monday March 22, 2021 @12:47PM (#26543290)
I remember stuff like that, once the COO called the entire company to the common room to present me a bottle of champagne for my efforts (another time I was given a fancy bottle of whiskey that some marketing guys drank 3/4 of before I ever got around to it). I rather not work any overtime instead.
Re:The absolute worst scenario happened by Aeolun on Monday March 22, 2021 @09:23AM (#26540414)
Come work for our company! We have an infinite amount of fires to put out.

To be fair, the number of fires is finite, new ones are just getting started faster than they are put out.

Re:The absolute worst scenario happened by sanedigital on Monday March 22, 2021 @12:59PM (#26543456)
I believe that implies that the fires are indeed infinite, just countably so.
Re:The absolute worst scenario happened by 4e530344963049 on Monday March 22, 2021 @08:56AM (#26540138)
A "firefighting" consultancy might be fun, no? And you would give people a lot of time off!
Re:The absolute worst scenario happened by paulz_ on Monday March 22, 2021 @09:03AM (#26540196)
I've thought about that before. You get the call. "It's 30 minutes away. I'll be there in 10"

If anyone happens to know of a career path or company that does that sort of work I would be interested to hear about it. Bonus points if the pay is half decent.

Re:The absolute worst scenario happened by clipradiowallet on Monday March 22, 2021 @02:41PM (#26544942)
I don't know of a company that does this sort of work, but I know of some technologies that experts in receive these types of calls. The one that comes to mind is an ERP-focused database system. It's called "Progress" by "OpenEdge". IMHO, it's awful, but this has no hindered adoption in the slightest. I wrote Progress/4gl (their query language) often enough in a prior position to have it on my resume. Every 2 or 3 months, I'll get an email/call, asking if I could be available for short-term contracting upwards of $200/hr for Progress emergencies. I have declined all of these, because I found it soul crushing to work with in the past. However, if you could enjoy that sort of thing, that's one example of a very lucrative field to dabble in.
Re:The absolute worst scenario happened by yellowapple on Monday March 22, 2021 @11:04PM (#26550547)
I've gotten a few pings along similar lines for my HighJump experience (warehouse management system, for those not acquainted). And much like OpenEdge, it's pretty... rough around the edges (at its core it's basically a runtime for a VM that's programmed with a "language" (if you can call it that) driven entirely by conditional GOTOs developed entirely in a half-baked SQL-backed IDE called "Architect"; this is paired with a DB schema from hell for all data storage, and it's filled to the brim with sprocs because even fucking T-SQL is more ergonomic than anything doable in Architect). And yet, it was actually kind of fun (in the twisted, Dwarf-Fortress-esque sense of the word) to hack on that system and abuse the hell out of it.

And for some reason warehouse managers seem to swear by it, so it still gets a decent number of new customers - meaning those customers need implementers. And since it's a giant pile of hacks, the average deployment needs a whole lot of customizations - so more implementation man-hours, and a steady stream of maintenance man-hours. Thus, I get pinged every once in awhile for some long-term contract. Too bad they didn't ping me when I was actually looking for work last year, else I probably would've accepted one for the hell of it. Still tempted to; would be an interesting side job, albeit probably soul crushing.

Re:The absolute worst scenario happened by munchbunny on Monday March 22, 2021 @09:18AM (#26540355)
Blue teaming in big company cyber security teams will get that for you. Not everything is a true positive but it’s always urgent. Pay is decent too.
Re:The absolute worst scenario happened by meowface on Monday March 22, 2021 @10:17AM (#26541133)
I've worked such a job at a large enterprise. It really does feel like firefighting (minus all the smoke inhalation and physical strain and death risk).

However, not only is not everything a true positive, probably only about 0.001% of things are true positives, among a sea of alerts and reports and dashboards across myriad systems. Some coming from your SIEM, some generated by security appliances and products, some from internal employee reports.

An ideal place will have people who continuously work on trying to reduce alert fatigue and false positive noise - but, in practice, at most big companies it's probably like working at a fire station and getting hundreds of dispatch calls per hour, every hour, every day, each about a potential fire at a different residence. And then you drive up and see they just used the stove for a few minutes or a character said the word "fire" in a TV show they were watching.

But you have to urgently show up every time no matter what because, occasionally, the house actually is engulfed in flames and might be on the verge of igniting the whole town.

Re:The absolute worst scenario happened by htrp on Monday March 22, 2021 @03:03PM (#26545254)
I spoke with a CISO of a large F500, his biggest gripe was that he has a team of 30 that can barely keep their heads above water, let alone respond to incidents
Re:The absolute worst scenario happened by insomniacity on Monday March 22, 2021 @09:19AM (#26540369)
I know Mandiant do this (disaster response) for security incidents. Don't know of a generalised service, but I imagine the big consultancies offer it.
Re:The absolute worst scenario happened by notyourday on Monday March 22, 2021 @09:29AM (#26540483)
> A "firefighting" consultancy might be fun, no?

It is... interesting. I have been doing this over last 4 years. The biggest problem, as I pointed out before, is the disconnect between what companies claim they would do to fix the problems vs. what they would actually do. So ~90% of selling is repeatedly explaining the same things to different people whose jobs are in the eminent danger of being restructured/deprioritized/eliminated if your services are successfully engaged.

Re:The absolute worst scenario happened by beckingz on Monday March 22, 2021 @09:51AM (#26540749)
hopefully you can skip most of those people and talk to the people who are in danger of being eliminated if your services are NOT engaged?
Re:The absolute worst scenario happened by notyourday on Monday March 22, 2021 @10:07AM (#26540950)
CEO: We are doing project X. We have engaged so and so to do it. You are to support this.

<multiple layers down, Jack, head of IT in charge of backups>: I'm uncomfortable sharing this information with the outside party. I will need to get the approvals for <blah blah blah blah>

...

CEO: Yes, tell them to do this.

...

Jack, head of IT in charge of backups: Ok, you can have this access.

Consultant: Great. <comes back ten minutes later> It says I'm not authorized to perform this operation. It is a blocker, could this be fixed so I could continue?

Jack: This was not in the scope of authorization that I have received. I'm uncomfortable providing this level of access without additional authorization.

<repeat>

Re:The absolute worst scenario happened by wiz21c on Monday March 22, 2021 @11:53AM (#26542543)
Damn that's so true. We hired a network expert to figure latency somewhere between our app and the end user. Spent a month asking autorisations for each gdmn net boxes which were owned by several organizations which were working in the same building but not able to cooperate because they were not paid by the same institution.

The guy did very creative reporting though :-)

And the problem was not fixed, of course.

I tried to help him as much as I could, but at some point, the thing is so intricate that you basically give up.

Re:The absolute worst scenario happened by digi59404 on Monday March 22, 2021 @11:50AM (#26542509)
This happens, and honestly it happens rarely.

When you’re in this role your goal and job is to build relationships and help people. That includes Jack. The job is getting done with or without Jacks help. So he can either jump onboard or he can be removed and someone else can be added to give access.

In the end people like Jack benefit nothing from being gatekeepers. Because the third time I have to ask for permissions to be changed - I’m asking for Jack to be removed from the task and someone else to be put in place.

Re:The absolute worst scenario happened by notyourday on Monday March 22, 2021 @12:42PM (#26543232)
That's not correct.

When you are in a firefighting role, your job is to fix the fire, not appease Jack and build relationship with him, the person whose practices created the situation to begin with. Unfortunately, even in those cases the highest level of stakeholder who engaged your firefighting service may not be willing to tell Jack's manager or Jack that he will do what he is told or he will be removed.

Jack's gatekeeping is what keeps Jack employed. The company's ultimate bosses will need to make decision if they want to remove Jack and solve a problem or if they do not care that much that the problem is quickly solved. In the vast majority of cases no one in the company who can fire Jack wants to be seen as a bad guy.

Re:The absolute worst scenario happened by beckingz on Monday March 22, 2021 @01:41PM (#26543999)
Oh.
Re:The absolute worst scenario happened by 4e530344963049 on Monday March 22, 2021 @01:54PM (#26544217)
Do you mind if I email you with some questions? Thank you.
Re:The absolute worst scenario happened by notyourday on Monday March 22, 2021 @02:24PM (#26544689)
Sure. Email is in the profile.
Re:The absolute worst scenario happened by pratik661 on Monday March 22, 2021 @11:40AM (#26542374)
I always wondered this:

If you are an external consultant (with no prior knowledge of the company's systems/processes/hierarchies) brought in to "fight" a particular fire, how do quickly get ramped up to a level of knowledge where you can analyze the root cause of/recommend a fix for a particular "fire"?

Re:The absolute worst scenario happened by Clubber on Monday March 22, 2021 @12:37PM (#26543170)
I would say the analysis is 90-99% of the work, based on my experience. Especially the more jacked up systems where cheapest devs found work on the codebase and it's a mess. 90% only comes in when it's so jacked up it requires a lot of refactoring.
Re:The absolute worst scenario happened by easton on Monday March 22, 2021 @09:04AM (#26540208)
This is my ideal job, I think. Charge a big rate to be the consultant you call when everything dies from ransomware or OPs problem or whatever, I calmly fix it to normal standards (as possible), take three weeks off after.
Re:The absolute worst scenario happened by m463 on Monday March 22, 2021 @12:05PM (#26542724)
It would be fun just to be able to talk to management with the same sort of candor the "cleaner" in pulp fiction did. (harvey keitel)
Re:The absolute worst scenario happened by papreclip on Monday March 22, 2021 @01:23PM (#26543768)
Being an SRE is a little more of this and a little less scheduled work. You still have standup and plenty of other meetings, though
Re:The absolute worst scenario happened by blhack on Monday March 22, 2021 @01:39PM (#26543968)
This is basically the reason I got out of doing IT and into development.

"If you do things well enough, nobody will think you did anything at all."

Re:The absolute worst scenario happened by hinkley on Monday March 22, 2021 @01:06PM (#26543558)
The first manager I ever respected was this goofball who worked at a fast food restaurant. I don't think the other managers took him seriously. He didn't really take himself seriously either (told the worst jokes), but when there was a rush he was the one you wanted running the kitchen. The other 2-3 people were kind of assholes under stress (they were assholes all the time if I'm honest). He was a machine, and it didn't hurt that he good at predicting orders before they were even made. We always made too much food in these situations but more of his would sell and the wait times were lower.

In war room after war room there has always been at least one person who would be categorized as 'disorganized' by their coworkers. When thrown into a stressful situation they either don't change or become more focused, while the 'organized' people crumple like tissue paper, so Mr Disorganized ends up either fixing the problem, keeping everyone on task until it does get fixed, or insisted on some process/tool improvement that made the problem easier to identify or fix.

Re:The absolute worst scenario happened by oehpr on Monday March 22, 2021 @02:12PM (#26544499)
I've heard this is a kind of symptom of people who have ADHD, some of them have grace under pressure.

I've been diagnosed with ADHD and I'm not sure I'd qualify as having that trait. So I don't believe this a general sweeping statement you can make for everyone with that, or if your boss even had ADHD.

But maybe check this out and ask if it rings any bells: https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/attention-deficit-hyperactivit...

Re:The absolute worst scenario happened by mijoharas on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @07:32AM (#26553780)
Wow... I really should have connected the dots.

I have ADHD and recently started an SRE squad in our company since I tend to be the go-to person to fix any production issues.

I had never really thought of a connection between those two things until now.

Re:The absolute worst scenario happened by danaliv on Monday March 22, 2021 @02:12PM (#26544489)
"Are you Mr. Disorganized who shines in an emergency?" would be a not-terrible screening question for ADHD:

https://www.additudemag.com/benefits-of-adhd-crisis/

Re:The absolute worst scenario happened by danjac on Monday March 22, 2021 @09:31AM (#26540507)
Looking through the comments, it appears concerns were raised for years and management refused to allow the necessary changes to save money.

While you can and should be the cool head in the room, it's a route to burnout if you end up being the hero who has to keep saving a dysfunctional organization and management from the consequences of its own failures. By all means do your best fix the immediate problem but get the hell out as soon as you can.

Re:The absolute worst scenario happened by pydry on Monday March 22, 2021 @11:19AM (#26542062)
>it's a route to burnout if you end up being the hero who has to keep saving a dysfunctional organization

The same dysfunction that led to disaster after disaster is likely to lead to very little reward (if any) for actually being the hero, also.

Re:The absolute worst scenario happened by jart on Monday March 22, 2021 @01:42PM (#26544020)
Reading comments https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/ma4mwl/the_absolu... it sounds like he ran into a kernel panic, maybe because cosmic radiation messed with their full disk encryption because they went cheap on the ecc ram, and then he got discouraged, he probably asked management for the resources to rewrite the whole system from scratch, they said no, and then he sat on his hands collecting paychecks for two years until the thing he knew would happen finally happened. How else can you explain an MSP not having a copy of their zone file? That's their core business. It's also no secret in the MSP world how frequently these DNS servers get hacked. I read about it all the time. Especially on Reddit where you can just sense the pervasive fear. So you'd think that'd give a sysadmin a moment's pause to think, OK, have I scp'd my zone file in case that happens to me?
Re:The absolute worst scenario happened by batch12 on Monday March 22, 2021 @08:48AM (#26540063)
One thing the situation does show is a lack of proper care for their most critical assets. When the dust settles, there should be hard questions for several people. One being-- when was the last time backups were tested..
Re:The absolute worst scenario happened by amachefe on Monday March 22, 2021 @09:01AM (#26540183)
The answer to the question is there

>We can't access the backups. Even if we could, we noticed two years ago when trying a restore from the backups, that it doesn't work. Booting the restored server leads to a kernel panic we couldn't figure out. Management said we don't have enough money to fix any of this.

Re:The absolute worst scenario happened by kwhitefoot on Monday March 22, 2021 @09:27AM (#26540453)
> Management said we don't have enough money to fix any of this.

It's often even worse. Many years ago I was responsible for backup a DEC Unix system. Asked for funds to conduct a disaster recover exercise to find out if our backups worked and was turned down even before we had tried to work out how much it would cost.

I often wonder what proportion of backed up files and systems are actually in a state to be restored and have the necessary tools and expertise to do it in a timely manner.

An even worse problem in some places, including the one I worked at, is a tendency for users to assume that backups are kept forever and for the management to totally neglect archiving of important documents such as specifications, drawings, and design calculations of products that have an expected lifetime of over fifty years.

I had to inform several users that I could not restore the file that they had only just noticed was missing because it was last seen more than two years ago and presumably disappeared longer ago than our longest backup cycle which was one year of monthly full backups.

Re:The absolute worst scenario happened by benlivengood on Monday March 22, 2021 @02:25PM (#26544706)
> I had to inform several users that I could not restore the file that they had only just noticed was missing because it was last seen more than two years ago and presumably disappeared longer ago than our longest backup cycle which was one year of monthly full backups.

If you can afford 12 months of backups then you can almost certainly afford >=12 years of yearly backups by buying a new set of monthly tapes once a year and taking a set out of rotation and into archive.

Re:The absolute worst scenario happened by kwhitefoot on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @01:20PM (#26557513)
Afford in the strict sense of have enough money, yes of course. But backup is not the same as archive even when the backup exists. It is usually not easily searchable, it is hard to be sure which version is authoritative and so on.
Re:The absolute worst scenario happened by Symbiote on Monday March 22, 2021 @04:13PM (#26546267)
But you are then archiving data (not just backing it up), and will need to work out how to delete records you are no longer legally able to keep.

(GDPR and earlier laws, etc.)

Re:The absolute worst scenario happened by benlivengood on Monday March 22, 2021 @08:52PM (#26549572)
Deletion requests affect monthly backups as well, although it's sort of up in the air how many months the EU will accept as a reasonable business practice for keeping should-be-deleted user data.

The best way to delete user data is to encrypt it all with per-user keys so they can be shredded immediately upon request. Backups of user keys themselves can be very short-lived since the keys are static and the lifetime is scoped to GDPR/other laws. Then the encrypted data can be archived indefinitely, so long as encryption keys are never stored in those archives.

Re:The absolute worst scenario happened by pedro2 on Monday March 22, 2021 @10:12AM (#26541020)
IMO Management will find the money pretty quick if the business survive.

Up until now, they didn't know what 'backup not working' meant. Now they know.

Not being bitter -- there was a failure of communication from both parts.

Re:The absolute worst scenario happened by carschno on Monday March 22, 2021 @10:04AM (#26540911)
I have no reason to doubt that this is factual. However, I have serious doubt that management will acknowledge they made that decision.

Typically, this kind of decisions are made more or less implicitly during long meetings about priorities, often without any minutes. Managers will presumably try to hold (senior) engineers accountable as they had not made clear enough how important that was.

I obviously don't know who is right here.

Re:The absolute worst scenario happened by colmvp on Monday March 22, 2021 @08:37AM (#26539947)
Thinking you're fucked is unhelpful, but it's pretty normal to go full Alien Hudson in a dire situation and need someone else to assure you that things will be okay.