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Re:Electric car that charges itself by jillesvangurp on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @03:55AM (#26474053)
Lots of cars don't drive much more than this per week and just sit outside on the drive way or parking lot. They are only used for short trips to work or shops.

Solar charging ensures you only rarely have to plug it in to top it up, which is convenient. It also means that if you leave it sitting outside for long periods of time, it will be topped up rather than slightly drained when you get back to it. That convenience is not worth a lot of course but solar panels are cheap. And also, not having to pay for the electricity is nice.

E.g. my mother has a car that averages less than 3000 km/year (seriously). With this, she'd never have to plug it in (or rather visit a petrol station). My parents live in a small village and most of the trips are basically 15km round trips to a near by city. Something like this but a bit cheaper would be perfect for them and decimate their fuel expenses.

Will this cover all your needs? No of course not. But solar panels are cheap so the added cost of this convenience might be worth it.

Re:Electric car that charges itself by extropy on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @06:11AM (#26474859)
In this case it's way cheaper to put those panels on your house.

No weight or vibration requirements, can use the electricity for your house too.

The only downside is you need to plug in.

Re:Electric car that charges itself by rythie on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @07:07AM (#26475223)
This assumes that you - own your house (30% rent in Europe [1]) - That you can charge at home (14% live in flats in UK for example [2]), many other properties don't have parking attached too and even for those with allocated parking, connecting a charger is prohibitively difficult (digging up roads / getting consent etc.)

Governments will likely be slow to implement on street charging. There is a market for something like this, if it works as well as they say - which I doubt.

[1] https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php... [2] https://www.mortgagefinancegazette.com/market-news/housing/t...

Re:Electric car that charges itself by mavhc on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @07:16AM (#26475273)
Why hasn't the owner of the house put solar panels up? They own a house, by definition they're into long term investing
Re:Electric car that charges itself by rythie on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @07:22AM (#26475318)
The owner would be the landlord, there is no benefit to them installing solar panels unless it increases the rental value to pay for them, it likely doesn't. Solar panels don't add value to a house and may decrease it. [1] Also there limits solar panel installations in conservation areas in UK and your roof can face the wrong way, so they are not efficient particularly.

[1] https://www.which.co.uk/news/2017/07/do-solar-panels-affect-...

Re:Electric car that charges itself by mavhc on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @07:33AM (#26475386)
No money for generating solar power? I get 20p/kwh
Re:Electric car that charges itself by rythie on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @07:43AM (#26475447)
Rates for new installations are much lower. Complicated to work it out, but seem to be around 4p/kwh. Also, the landlord would not benefit from any feed in tariff as the tenant pays the electric bill and would receive any feed in tariff benefit.
Re:Electric car that charges itself by gambiting on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @10:47AM (#26477402)
I rented a house in the UK which had solar panels but we never received any money from the electricity generated with it(I knew that's the deal going in, but still).
Re:Electric car that charges itself by mavhc on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @07:54AM (#26475538)
Most of those houses existed when the rate was high
Re:Electric car that charges itself by rythie on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @08:01AM (#26475581)
That's not how it works, it's based on the date of the solar installation, not when the house was built.
Re:Electric car that charges itself by mavhc on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @08:18AM (#26475709)
But why didn't the owner install solar back then?
Re:Electric car that charges itself by gambiting on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @10:49AM (#26477434)
Uhm.....back when? In the UK out of the 9 houses I rented so far 8 were 80+ years old, and the last one was "only" 40 years old. Installation of solar panels on houses this old also presents some challenges, as most of them will have original roofs quickly approaching a full century. And if you need to replace the roof just to install some solar panels it quickly becomes an unprofitable idea.
Re:Electric car that charges itself by Qwertious on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @11:40AM (#26478263)
Who cares? Statistically most houses in most places don't have solar. No amount of justification or argument will go back in time and retroactively change that historical fact.
Re:Electric car that charges itself by nomel on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @03:01PM (#26481328)
There are other investment options for something that has no liquidity and doesn't result in a profit for 8 years or more.
Re:Electric car that charges itself by bin_bash on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @10:00AM (#26476756)
Does the owner pay electricity in the UK? In the US the tenant pays it directly.
Re:Electric car that charges itself by rythie on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @06:17PM (#26483923)
Usually the tenant would pay directly for electricity along with other bills, unless they are just renting a room.
Re:Electric car that charges itself by cr3ative on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @12:32PM (#26479058)
Depends on the tenancy agreement, some are bills included, some are not.
Re:Electric car that charges itself by slfnflctd on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @08:48AM (#26475999)
My HOA doesn't allow it or I'd have them already. And there is no way to fix this because the way the HOA is set up, it is impossible to get a quorum to change it.
Re:Electric car that charges itself by vinay427 on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @09:40AM (#26476530)
Assuming you're in the US due to the relative popularity of HOAs there, this has thankfully been blocked in some (particularly sunny) states. At least California, Texas, Florida, and a few others have solar access laws that prohibit HOA restrictions on solar panel installations. It's worth making sure your state doesn't have a similar policy.
Re:Electric car that charges itself by mavhc on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @12:03PM (#26478600)
Flood their houses to prove a point.
Re:Electric car that charges itself by nickez on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @06:44AM (#26475055)
What if you live in an apartment and only use your car for weekend activities?
Re:Electric car that charges itself by SideburnsOfDoom on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @07:01AM (#26475172)
> What if you live in an apartment and only use your car for weekend activities?

Then you probably live in a city and would be better served by transport modes where you don't need a big upfront cost, and other expenses and hassle of owning your own vehicle. I mean bus, tram, metro rail, taxi, uber.

You can always qualify with further "what if you..." to find someone who matches this case. But by the time you're done it won't be a viable number of customers.

Re:Electric car that charges itself by throwaw2934238 on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @09:28AM (#26476400)
People who live in big cities and ride crowded public transport every day to work, do not want to spend their free time on the weekend riding crowded public transport in the city.

The cars are used to get away from crowds and from the city, to have some privacy and comfort and go out into nature.

Re:Electric car that charges itself by nomel on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @03:05PM (#26481369)
If the intent was to be green, to minimize your carbon footprint, then you would buy an older, pre-owned, small displacement vehicle instead.
Re:Electric car that charges itself by throwaw2934238 on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @06:26AM (#26474939)
I also think these cars would be great, and have a lot of peoples needs covered, me for example. I don't understand this sentiment in the debate of electric cars, how all of them need to cover the most extreme edge case of long mileage users, and if they don't, the whole idea should be scrapped. Why? Let's build a few different cars with different ranges to suit peoples different needs, what's the problem with that, I don't understand why there is such a black and white reasoning around this.
Re:Electric car that charges itself by SideburnsOfDoom on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @07:03AM (#26475195)
> I don't understand why there is such a black and white reasoning around this.

There is black-and white reasoning about this because the maths around "what is the surface area of the car, how much charge can it generate and how far can it go on that charge" is also black-and white. And not favourable.

As the other reply says, this is not "the debate of electric cars"; this is the debate about this specific electric car design, with the solar panels on the car.

Re:Electric car that charges itself by majewsky on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @06:34AM (#26474992)
You're misrepresenting the current argument. This is not about "electric cars will never be viable", the current argument is "this particular electric car has significant downsides and nearly no advantages compared to existing electric cars".
Re:Electric car that charges itself by Qwertious on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @11:52AM (#26478435)
>You're misrepresenting the current argument.

It's not talking about the current argument. It's saying the current argument shares the property of arguing against the use-cases of people outside the target demographic.

People who argue "electric cars will never be viable" (and not anyone in this thread) commonly complain about lack of supercharging speed, despite that being a feature that most people (and all initial adopters) will only use once or twice a year, if ever. This will not be a problem for a long time, as right now only ~1% of car users have an EV and that won't be a major problem until we start running out of ICE car-owning EV buyers who don't need that, which is at least at the 50% mark.

Re:Electric car that charges itself by fomine3 on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @02:21AM (#26487253)
Agreed but it's partially due to EV manufacturer/fan's advertisement. They should say that what you need is just plug in at home for most days, rather than supercharging.
Re:Electric car that charges itself by zcw100 on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @08:03AM (#26475594)
There's also the huge downside of adding another complex system to your car. It's going to cost a small fortune to replace this when it breaks. People act as though solar panels grow on trees. There's an environmental cost to manufacturing and disposing of these things.
Re:Electric car that charges itself by jillesvangurp on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @09:45AM (#26476594)
Panels and a few wires. Not that complicated. No moving parts; so very few reasons for this to break. I've seen some pretty beat up panels on boats that are very old and still allow people to charge their phone and have some lights on inside. Super robust stuff.

This particular car is priced quite nicely even if it came without this. So does not sound like there is a lot of extra cost.

I'm guessing manufacturers spend more on things like seat warmers or other stuff manufacturers put in cars these days. Also these things are probably more likely to break.

And if you consider the environment, imagine the energy savings over the life time of the vehicle not charging from (potentially) dirty sources. It would only be a waste if that energy wasn't used which would require you to religiously plug it in the second you stop driving.

Also, panels can be recycled (just like cars and batteries) and mostly don't contain that much nasty stuff to begin with. So, I don't see the problem here necessarily.

Re:Electric car that charges itself by eldaisfish on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @09:52AM (#26476677)
these are not standard panels and are unlikely to be cheap. PV Panels on roofs or boats are standard panels and any equivalently rated panel will work. Not the case in a car.
Re:Electric car that charges itself by thedrbrian on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @07:26AM (#26475341)
If someone is only doing 60 miles a week what’s the point of them spending 30 to 40 grand on a new car? Also how long is it going to take to save the carbon used in construction of the new car versus keeping the old one?
Re:Electric car that charges itself by jiofih on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @07:42AM (#26475446)
My car fits this profile. Short trips to school and a few errands, most under 5km. Used car, 20k+.

I can imagine this seems absurdly low for suburban America.

Re:Electric car that charges itself by mavhc on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @04:00AM (#26474079)
Those cars shouldn't exist at all though, massive waste of resources, renting cars should be much much simpler and cheaper
Re:Electric car that charges itself by bayindirh on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @05:20AM (#26474545)
Instead, cities should have much better and practical public transport, so I wouldn't need my car in the first place, but it's not possible to plan your day around with flexibility in my city, unless I have my car with me.

Otherwise, 15 min trips become 60+ ones which makes everything impossible.

Re:Electric car that charges itself by throwaw2934238 on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @06:02AM (#26474798)
Public transport still doesn't cover all the use cases of a car, such as hauling things and going out into nature. Which is something everyone needs to do.
Re:Electric car that charges itself by foobar33333 on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @07:24AM (#26475330)
In South Australia the public transport certainly does go out to nature. Kids use the train to bring their mountain bikes to the top of the trails and you can visit many national parks by bus. And for hauling things, its cheaper to get them delivered or rent a small truck.

People seem to think that just because things don't work where they live, that they must be impossible.

Re:Electric car that charges itself by throwaw2934238 on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @10:43AM (#26477343)
Even if public transport goes out into nature, it's going to be a tiny fraction of the places that you can reach with a car. To reach nature in the same extent with public transport as with a car, is impossible. The few nature spots that are connected by public transport around here are completely overcrowded on any weekend with nice weather, and the trip itself takes more than twice the time of driving, making day trips not even feasible anymore.

Even just getting around in inside the city, driving takes on average half the time of public transport. Shopping is much more convenient. It IS impossible to have public transport that delivers the same usefulness, speed and flexibility.

Re:Electric car that charges itself by majewsky on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @06:35AM (#26474998)
Correct. Therefore, the winning combination for city dwellers is public transit + carsharing. Public transit operators are catching on to this: In my city, there is a tie-in offer where a subscription to public transit gives you a rebate with a partnered carsharing provider.
Re:Electric car that charges itself by throwaw2934238 on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @07:03AM (#26475196)
Like I already wrote in another comment, I think car sharing absolutely does not work at all, because everyone wants the cars at the same time. It's really difficult to find a car when you want it, for example on a sunday afternoon when the weather is nice. And it's totally unreliable, sorry bad luck no swimming for you today, a whole beautiful day wasted in your apartment. It's almost impossible hard to find a scooter share to go to work during commute times. It's only reliable on odd times where noone wants it.

Owning a car still gives you a lot of freedom and flexibility to do what you want, when you want it. Which is not covered by car sharing at all.

I would gladly own a cheaper car only to do a weekly shopping trip and a weekly nature trip, something like 25km per week. Seems ridiculous to own a car for that short distances, but it gives a LOT of quality of life and I would gladly pay for it instead of using car sharing.

Re:Electric car that charges itself by SideburnsOfDoom on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @07:23AM (#26475329)
> Owning a car still gives you a lot of freedom and flexibility to do what you want, when you want it. Which is not covered by car sharing at all.

I live in a big city (London). Owning a car for me would be frankly insane. Where would I put it? If I was communing again, could not possibly take it in to work, there would be nowhere to put it at that end either, when I finally got through the traffic.

It is both much more practical and cheaper to use bicycle or bus and metro rail for commuting; taxi, minicab, or uber for other urban journeys; and car rental for weekends away.

I get that cases may vary. it's different further out from the city. But the idea that car = freedom, always, is very silly. I owned car here once, and it was liberating to get rid of it.

It seems that you have problems with your shared transport in your area, it sucks but maybe the better solution is better shared transport, not more private cars?

Re:Electric car that charges itself by bayindirh on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @07:40AM (#26475428)
> I live in a big city (London). Owning a car for me would be frankly insane. Where would I put it? If I was communing again, could not possibly take it in to work, there would be nowhere to put it at that end either, when I finally got through the traffic.

I live in a big city. Not owning a car for me would be frankly insane. How would I get to work? It'd take ~2 hours with public transport only.

It is both much more practical and safer to use a car rather than a bicylce (too dangerous) or bus (cannot reach where I go) and metro rail (Have to walk an hour for nearest station) for commuting; taxi, minicab, or uber for other urban journeys; and car rental for weekends away (all are too expensive in the long run).

I get that cases may vary. it's different in other cities. But the idea that car = burden, always, is very silly. I was unable to go where I want/need to go quickly until I got a car, and it was liberating.

There, fixed it for my case. :)

Of course, YMMV. :)

Re:Electric car that charges itself by SideburnsOfDoom on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @07:47AM (#26475479)
The public transport in your city sucks, sorry about that. Maybe fix that, not daft distractions like solar panels on cars.
Re:Electric car that charges itself by bayindirh on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @08:00AM (#26475574)
Eh, the comment thread we're talking under starts with a comment [0] by me, supporting public transport rather than thse cars with an implicit sentence stating that my city's public transport sucks.

That's a nice full circle. :)

[0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26474545

Re:Electric car that charges itself by mavhc on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @07:19AM (#26475298)
If they want cars at the same time each day, that's what mass transport covers.

Problem is people don't pay the real cost of their car, it's subsidised by free pollution

Re:Electric car that charges itself by throwaw2934238 on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @08:36AM (#26475878)
No it doesn't, because the destination is not a densely populated place. People go in wheel and spoke formation in their cars out from the city into nature.
Re:Electric car that charges itself by bayindirh on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @06:18AM (#26474891)
> Public transport still doesn't cover all the use cases of a car.

Of course. OTOH, Instead of using my car, congesting traffic and spewing smoke from my back twice everyday, I'd only use my car whenever I need it for these heavy tasks.

Then, use public transport most of the time which possibly runs on electric and do a little more walking every day.

Re:Electric car that charges itself by jillesvangurp on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @04:55AM (#26474378)
There is no car rental in my parents village and the bus only comes a few times a day. Car sharing works great in bigger cities but is not even an option outside those. I use one in Berlin and have never owned a car actually.

Perfect for people like my mother would be a self driving car that you can summon to your door in a few minutes. But even calling a taxi takes half an hour+. So it would have to be faster than that.

Re:Electric car that charges itself by throwaw2934238 on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @06:10AM (#26474850)
I live in a big city and use car sharing, and I don't think it works great at all. The fundamental problem with it, and the thing that is always overlooked in the calculations of how much time private cars are unused, is that everyone wants the cars at the same time. Mornings + afternoons (commute times) and weekends. Also highly depending on the weather, which means even planning a day ahead is very hard. If it's sunday afternoon and the weather is nice, good luck finding a free car in the car sharing.
Re:Electric car that charges itself by lloeki on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @05:24AM (#26474572)
For some (not that rare) areas, make that:

- bus: a few times a week (if at all), because of cost efficiency

- taxi: hours, + only if you book at least a day in advance, because they’re just not sitting there waiting for a call, they’re busy towards where people are/go, which is, like, the other way.

Throw in no/unstable/limited power grid, and you double down on one of the use cases.

Re:Electric car that charges itself by iso1631 on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @05:52AM (#26474737)
The village 3 miles away has a bus service 5 times a day. My sister lives in a different village. She gets a bus service on Tuesday morning.
Re:Electric car that charges itself by mavhc on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @07:20AM (#26475303)
There would be more busses if there was more demand because less people had cars
Re:Electric car that charges itself by iso1631 on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @09:37AM (#26476489)
There wouldn't, when there's only demand for 15 outbound journeys a day from a given hamlet, equally spread on the 4 roads in and out, your bus isn't going to get used.
Re:Electric car that charges itself by iso1631 on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @05:51AM (#26474728)
Rent a car that's delivered to a house reliably available at 8am each morning and 3pm every afternoon, with car seats, when everyone else is after a car at at least one of those times, half a mile from the nearest neighbour, 2 miles from the village, and 7 miles from the nearest town?
Re:Electric car that charges itself by jiofih on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @07:53AM (#26475521)
Sounds like an urban planning problem.

I can find half a dozen car sharing vehicles in a 400m radius from my house.

Re:Electric car that charges itself by throwaw2934238 on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @10:49AM (#26477423)
Try again on a sunday afternoon on one of the first beautiful spring days, see how many cars you can find then. Zero around here
Re:Electric car that charges itself by iso1631 on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @09:35AM (#26476476)
I can find half a dozen sheep within 400m radius from my house. Not everyone lives in a dense city.
Re:Electric car that charges itself by jiofih on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @06:40PM (#26484164)
Well, I can also find a dozen sheep within that radius, just the other way around! Dense country for sure, but I’m not living near the city center.

Urban planning does not equal trying to get everyone to live in packed apartments.

Re:Electric car that charges itself by darawk on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @04:09AM (#26474123)
Lots of people have a 10 mile or less round trip commute. At that distance, you can drive to and from work every day using this car. I don't think most people would want to rent a vehicle for this.
Re:Electric car that charges itself by bayindirh on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @05:21AM (#26474552)
... and if I'm going to rent it for 24 hours, why not buy it in the first place?
Re:Electric car that charges itself by lpcam33 on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @05:33AM (#26474623)
The environmental cost of making the car takes a reasonable amount of the resources used in is lifecycle. So in the case you only need the car for a few miles a week you should consider alternatives. Maybe village councils should have a car to be shared by all.
Re:Electric car that charges itself by iso1631 on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @05:56AM (#26474768)
What about peak load

You've got 150 people in a village

Half drive, so that's 75

You've got 10% of people who want a car for this sort of distance (3000km), so that's 8. Of those chances are at least some of the time almost all of them will want to use it over the same period. Maybe you can get away with 6 or 7 cars instead of 8, with some risk, but that's not saving much, and you're adding a lot of inconvenience (car won't be in the right place), overhead, and risk (what if you need a car now and there's none available?)

If you want to tackle the externalities of the resources producing the car, tax them at the same rate as taxing other resources.

Of course that's a big village, what about a group of half a dozen isolated houses 2 miles from the village?

Re:Electric car that charges itself by Dylan16807 on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @11:18AM (#26492420)
Sure, if peak load is 90% of users wanting to go on long distance trips simultaneously then it doesn't work out.

Why would peak load be that high, though?

Re:Electric car that charges itself by rswskg on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @06:36AM (#26475013)
Maybe you should build a ride sharing app......oh.
Re:Electric car that charges itself by achow on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @04:25AM (#26474207)
Small villages would not have any rentals. Small villages also keep vehicles for emergency - ex. for emergency visits to hospitals at nearest town or city.
Re:Electric car that charges itself by blendergeek on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @05:13AM (#26474498)
Renting cars requires a good credit score, a good driving record, and somebody willing to rent you a car. Further, if a trip starts at a residence there probably won't be a rental car available. And if all the rental cars are in use, there arent any. Car ownership allows a greater level of autonomy without continuous reliance on one more entity that can blacklist whomever they want at any time.
Re:Electric car that charges itself by swilliamsio on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @05:13AM (#26474501)
Surely public transportation options are infinitely more preferable than people repeatedly renting cars?
Re:Electric car that charges itself by mavhc on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @07:13AM (#26475252)
Once you have JIT public transport then there's no difference really