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Re:Can a Vegan Diet Be Healthy? A Literature Review by helsinkiandrew on Sunday March 14, 2021 @05:55AM (#26453986)
I’ve been a vegan for 35 years and although I think it’s more healthy. It’s likely the biggest health benefit that someone would get going vegan in the past would be that most processed ‘crap’ food is not vegan and you are forced to make healthier choices.

I find it annoying that the rise in veganism means there are far more bad choices I can make: big chain burgers, ready meals, cakes, cheesy pizzas are all now available to me.

Re:Can a Vegan Diet Be Healthy? A Literature Review by lazyninja987 on Sunday March 14, 2021 @06:11AM (#26454064)
absolutely right. i am in india and my entire extended family is vegeterian.

But people still consume deep-fried unhealthy foods, and with the dawn of global food chains offering veg options, the problem amplifies.

Being veg alone does not guarantee health, consuming healthy food in moderation should be priority.

On the other hand, situation for meat eaters is worse. zero standards for meat quality, rat meat served in place of chicken. its a nightmare.

Re:Can a Vegan Diet Be Healthy? A Literature Review by signal11 on Sunday March 14, 2021 @06:27AM (#26454146)
Vegetarian Indian food is very tasty and also potentially very carb-rich if you don’t watch out — especially the parathas / pooris. Or the large amounts of rice many consume vs their exercise levels.

The sugary tea many consume, often multiple times a day, is also a problem — to be clear the sugar is the problem, not the tea. And then there’s Indian sweets and a national love of biscuits (en-GB not en-US) and fried snacks.

Re:Can a Vegan Diet Be Healthy? A Literature Review by dgellow on Sunday March 14, 2021 @06:38AM (#26454196)
> rat meat served in place of chicken.

Wait, what?!

Re:Can a Vegan Diet Be Healthy? A Literature Review by lazyninja987 on Sunday March 14, 2021 @06:50AM (#26454262)
meat is never served directly to customers. its served as part of dish (chicken curry/chicken biryani etc.,).

to increase profits, hotel owners, mix rat meat with chicken because its cheaper and impossible to detect.

Re:Can a Vegan Diet Be Healthy? A Literature Review by freddie_mercury on Sunday March 14, 2021 @06:15AM (#26454081)
Unfortunately we've seen the same trend with low-fat, Atkins, keto, etc.

All of them are probably fine in that they, at first, forced you to avoid all the processed crap. But eventually it became too profitable a segment to ignore for the food industry and suddenly it is easy to eat 5,000 calories a day of keto desserts.

Re:Can a Vegan Diet Be Healthy? A Literature Review by incrudible on Sunday March 14, 2021 @06:32AM (#26454169)
It's not as easy to consume excess calories with fats/protein as it is with simple carbs. These are quickly processed, spike your blood sugar, cause insulin overload, which in turns lowers your blood sugar to the point where you're hungry again.

Fats/protein take longer to process and are more satiating. That's not to say you couldn't consume 5,000 calories of them in one sitting, but you wouldn't be hungry again any time soon.

Re:Can a Vegan Diet Be Healthy? A Literature Review by cageface on Sunday March 14, 2021 @06:42AM (#26454218)
Protein spikes your insulin just as much as carbs do. A steak will raise your insulin levels more than a plate of spaghetti.

Whole carbs with the fiber intact can be quite satiating. Most of the problems people attribute to carbs really only pertain to refined carbs.

Re:Can a Vegan Diet Be Healthy? A Literature Review by Daho0n on Sunday March 14, 2021 @07:09AM (#26454359)
Either I'm built different than other people (and so is the other commentator) or this is wrong. I used a blood glucose monitor to see how my body actually reacted to what I ate. Besides, even if true, it doesn't matter. What most people seem to misunderstand is that the body simply doesn't react the same in ketosis. On keto I could eat a meal and my insulin levels didn't change much, unlike off keto where it is s constant up and down no matter what I eat. In other words in ketosis the spike if I eat an apple is way less than if not in ketosis.

Edit since I can't reply to the reply:

>the idea that carbs = fat

That is the most stupid thing I have ever heard. No-one eating keto have ever said that or they would only eat candy.

And yes you can look it up but insulin level index is only like 1/10 of the story. The fact is still that if a vegan eat an apple the blood spike is higher than if someone in ketosis does. Higher spike = hungry faster, which is the whole point of keto. 1 calorie from non-fat != 1 calorie from fat.

Re:Can a Vegan Diet Be Healthy? A Literature Review by cageface on Sunday March 14, 2021 @07:22AM (#26454422)
You can look it up:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin_index

Beef is above even white pasta. Your blood glucose and insulin levels are two different things.

The healthiest populations in the world eat a lot of (untefined) carbs so the idea that carbs = fat is simple and appealing but also wrong.

Re:Can a Vegan Diet Be Healthy? A Literature Review by incrudible on Sunday March 14, 2021 @07:41AM (#26454523)
A single number sampled after a two-hour period doesn't paint the whole picture.

If you eat a bowl of rice this likely will happen: Your blood sugar spikes, insulin is released. If after a while your blood sugar is still elevated, another dose of insulin is released which can push your blood sugar below baseline and to the point where "hunger" is triggered.

If you eat the caloric equivalent of that in the form of a steak, your blood sugar stays more or less constant.

How exactly this plays out depends on your insulin sensitivity. It may be different for highly insulin sensitive people, but empirically it is true for me and probably for most people, otherwise "sugar crash" wouldn't be a word.

Of course, you probably won't eat just a bowl of rice except for experiment, adding some fat and protein can greatly mitigate the effect.

> The healthiest populations in the world eat a lot of (untefined) carbs so the idea that carbs = fat is simple and appealing but also wrong.

The "healthiest" populations also are outliers in many other respects. I'm not making an argument that a high-fat diet is healthy or unhealthy. I'm saying that fat, protein and carbohydrates are quite different in how they are experienced from a dietary perspective, regardless of caloric equivalence.

Re:Can a Vegan Diet Be Healthy? A Literature Review by cageface on Sunday March 14, 2021 @08:27AM (#26454747)
White rice maybe. Eat whole carbs like most humans have for most of human history and you will be fine.
Re:Can a Vegan Diet Be Healthy? A Literature Review by incrudible on Sunday March 14, 2021 @09:15AM (#26455121)
What do you consider "whole carb" then? Whole grain bread or potatoes have a comparable or higher insulin index, and even if the glycemic index may be lower, the glycemic load is the same.

Really what you need to do in order to avoid this effect is to add fat and protein into your meal.

As for what "most humans ate for most of history", it's not really clear-cut.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleistocene_human_diet

Re:Can a Vegan Diet Be Healthy? A Literature Review by cageface on Sunday March 14, 2021 @10:44PM (#26462067)
Adding protein is just making things worse. If you want to control glycemic response then what you want is more fiber:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3001740/

Add some veggies to your meal.

Re:Can a Vegan Diet Be Healthy? A Literature Review by hirundo on Sunday March 14, 2021 @06:51AM (#26454274)
This is definitely not my experience as measured with a continuous blood glucose monitor. I repeatedly and reliably got a much lower excursion from a steak than from pasta. There is a lot of idiosyncrasy in these responses but my pattern is the usual. This chart is typical:

https://i0.wp.com/www.gestationaldiabetes.co.uk/wp-content/u...

Re:Can a Vegan Diet Be Healthy? A Literature Review by ponzao on Sunday March 14, 2021 @07:20AM (#26454408)
T1D here who has a CGM, this is not true for me at all. Without _enough_ insulin on board spaghetti would start spiking my blood sugar ~20 minutes after consumption and the sky is the limit. With something like steak I could basically skip injecting insulin beforehand, but would need to inject later to deal with the delayed rise. The rise from protein in general is never anywhere near as drastic as from carbs, even the "healthy" carbs.
Re:Can a Vegan Diet Be Healthy? A Literature Review by cageface on Sunday March 14, 2021 @07:33AM (#26454477)
This can be measured scientifically:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin_index

Note that insulin level and blood sugar level are two independent things.

Re:Can a Vegan Diet Be Healthy? A Literature Review by ponzao on Monday March 15, 2021 @05:20AM (#26463934)
Sorry are you agreeing or disagreeing with me?

That Wikipedia article doesn't seem to cite very many studies. At least from my own perspective I can tell you that even after two hours of eating many kinds of meals your blood sugar can rise and you will need insulin to counteract that, either produced by the body itself or injected.

As an aside I would really like to know where the two hour postbrandial measuring for blood glucose levels etc. comes from as it feels completely arbitrary.

Re:Can a Vegan Diet Be Healthy? A Literature Review by incrudible on Sunday March 14, 2021 @07:05AM (#26454333)
> Protein spikes your insulin just as much as carbs do. A steak will raise your insulin levels more than a plate of spaghetti.

Maybe on paper, but it's not the same effect. If I eat a steak, my blood sugar doesn't go up and then way down, it stays constant. I'm not going to be hungry soon afterwards.

> Most of the problems people attribute to carbs really only pertain to refined carbs.

I did explicitly refer to "simple carbs" and "excess consumption".

Re:Can a Vegan Diet Be Healthy? A Literature Review by shlant on Sunday March 14, 2021 @06:37AM (#26454193)
protein is 4 calories per gram (same as carbs). Fibre content has a big effect on satiety.

Fat is 9 calories per gram. Fat is incredibly easy to over-consume by the very nature of it being more calorically dense and having very little fibre.

Re:Can a Vegan Diet Be Healthy? A Literature Review by incrudible on Sunday March 14, 2021 @06:55AM (#26454294)
Nobody who has ever been on a high-fat diet will corroborate this. You can't just compare calories like that.

As for fibre, I disagree that it is satiating. It may make you feel "full", but that is not the same as being satiated. Your body doesn't tell you to "stop eating" just because your stomach is full of matter that it doesn't actually process. Blood sugar plays a role, as do many other things.

If it were any different, diets based around eating lots of high-volume/low-calorie food should "just work", but they just don't.

Re:Can a Vegan Diet Be Healthy? A Literature Review by zhengiszen on Sunday March 14, 2021 @07:05AM (#26454334)
Don't forget your health capital (meat and milk) at early age... I don't think we can recommend a vegan diet for toddlers and babies...
Re:Can a Vegan Diet Be Healthy? A Literature Review by wdb on Sunday March 14, 2021 @06:16AM (#26454083)
I have been receiving vegan recipes from Riverford Organic Farmers but they start to get boring. That's my main pet peeve of it. Not sure it's just the Riverford Recipe boxes or in general. Maybe the problem I am not a huge fan of Quinoa or lentils that keep having in the recipes.
Re:Can a Vegan Diet Be Healthy? A Literature Review by AussieWog93 on Sunday March 14, 2021 @06:20AM (#26454105)
I'm not vegan, but there are heaps of great vegetarian/vegan recipes from the Indian cuisine.

This is a great site full of Indian recipes: https://www.vegrecipesofindia.com/

Re:Can a Vegan Diet Be Healthy? A Literature Review by aloisdg on Sunday March 14, 2021 @06:23AM (#26454119)
India. thousands years of veg recipes ready to be cooked
Re:Can a Vegan Diet Be Healthy? A Literature Review by wdb on Sunday March 14, 2021 @06:24AM (#26454129)
I can't eat enough bowls of Aloo Gobi or the potatoes+spinach version so good.

Thank you, good idea, maybe I should find some recipes boxes for Indian dishes :D

Re:Can a Vegan Diet Be Healthy? A Literature Review by jfengel on Monday March 15, 2021 @11:11AM (#26466930)
If you're interested in Indian cooking from an American nerdy point of view, you might like this book:

https://www.priyakrishna.me/indianish

It's her mother's recipes, living in the US. It breaks down Indian cooking into a literal flowchart, giving you a lot of options for creativity. It's not a "vegan cookbook"; it's just that the don't happen to use animal products. (There's even a couple of meat recipes, in fact. Oddly, no paneer, either, though adding pressed tofu to a lot of the recipes is a good way to stretch them and complement the flavors.)

It's also pretty heavy on the lentils, but you might find the Indian way of looking at lentils to be a lot more tasty (and a lot more variety) than "just a pot full of cooked beans". The keys are (a) pickles and chutneys, mixed and matched, and (b) the "chhonk", basically cooking spices in oil and adding it at the last minute. Between the two there's a ton of room for improvisation and different flavor profiles.

Re:Can a Vegan Diet Be Healthy? A Literature Review by shlant on Sunday March 14, 2021 @05:56AM (#26453993)
the double edged sword of having exciting new food options but missing the willpower to enjoy in moderation! haha
Re:Can a Vegan Diet Be Healthy? A Literature Review by nabla9 on Sunday March 14, 2021 @06:30AM (#26454163)
"chips-beer vegan" is a brand new category of eating unhealthy.
Re:Can a Vegan Diet Be Healthy? A Literature Review by shlant on Sunday March 14, 2021 @06:42AM (#26454219)
I had a friend once who tried going "vegan" for a few weeks and eventually gave up because he said he felt like shit. His "vegan" diet? mostly coffee and cigarettes..