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Re:From Vim to Emacs in fourteen days (2015) by davidw on Thursday March 11, 2021 @05:00PM (#26429565)
Emacs vs Vim is like comfort food for software-related online discussions.
Re:From Vim to Emacs in fourteen days (2015) by rtpg on Thursday March 11, 2021 @09:48PM (#26431735)
I guess, given how evil-mode just gets better and better every day I'm not really seeing many people moving in the other direction, at least based on the blog posts.

No shade on Vim, people like it and are productive in it. I see it like using Sublime Text, lots of people can get away with it, but I need more doodads in my editor.

And hey, nobody is like "Notepad++ vs. Visual Studio", which I think kinda matches the mismatch (or maybe "Notepad++ vs Atom" or something)

Re:From Vim to Emacs in fourteen days (2015) by joadha on Thursday March 11, 2021 @10:46PM (#26432003)
Here's the thing, though. I don't use Vim as an IDE. I use it on live servers to change configs / scripts / app code (don't tell anyone) quickly and efficiently. I don't think "extra doodads" would help with that, and I'm not sure I'd want to manage those dependencies on my platform anyway.

If I'm actually developing something that's part of a greater whole, then I'm using a fully fledged IDE like PyCharm (but with the VIM emulator plugged in for when I need it, of course ;-D).

Likewise, no shade at Emacs, though. Several of my favorite colleagues use it!

Re:From Vim to Emacs in fourteen days (2015) by soraminazuki on Friday March 12, 2021 @02:00AM (#26432917)
Contrary to what many might expect, Emacs tools are quite good for performing sysadmin tasks:

* TRAMP for remote editing. It's more powerful than Vim's netrw remote editing capabilites and can handle root-owned files on remote servers. It's so extensible there's even a package that allows you to edit files inside Docker containers running on remote servers.

* Dired. It's the best text-based file manager out there IMHO, and it integrates very nicely with TRAMP.

* Org mode. It can be used like Jupyter notebook, but is far more powerful. You can write each code block in any language you choose, pass data between them, and make each of them run on different servers. This is very useful for sysadmin tasks especially in professional environments because it allows you to document each step in a reproducible manner as you're executing it. You can then just share the org document for your cowokers to review.

I personally use Vim for coding and Emacs for non-trivial sysadmin tasks.

Re:From Vim to Emacs in fourteen days (2015) by champagnepapi on Thursday March 11, 2021 @11:26PM (#26432206)
Changes to PRODUCTION app code on server?! I’ve seen this happen once or twice at my current company. Not the best of times...
Re:From Vim to Emacs in fourteen days (2015) by kQq9oHeAz6wLLS on Thursday March 11, 2021 @11:39PM (#26432274)
Everyone has a test environment. Some are lucky enough to have a separate production environment.
Re:From Vim to Emacs in fourteen days (2015) by MaxBarraclough on Friday March 12, 2021 @04:17AM (#26433715)
One of our oldest and proudest flame-wars.

In 2001, Slashdot held a poll for Best Flame War. [0] The winner, by quite a margin, was Operating System, but the text editor wars (presently being fought at [1]) weren't listed as an option. Personally I'm also rather fond of the tabs-vs-spaces debate.

[0] https://slashdot.org/poll/699/best-flame-war

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26431864

Re:From Vim to Emacs in fourteen days (2015) by arc-in-space on Thursday March 11, 2021 @06:14PM (#26430256)
I need to make a conscious effort to stay the hell away whenever this comes up here on hn. It's not the only topic that does this, but it's by far the least productive one, lang wars can at least be educational.
Re:From Vim to Emacs in fourteen days (2015) by bitwize on Thursday March 11, 2021 @05:57PM (#26430083)
And it's even more useless fluff than it was back in the day because people used Vim and Emacs in large numbers back then. These days the vast bulk of professional developers use Visual Studio Code. Compared to VSCode vs. IntelliJ, Vim vs. Emacs is a sideshow at best.
Re:From Vim to Emacs in fourteen days (2015) by jimbokun on Thursday March 11, 2021 @06:14PM (#26430252)
> Vim vs. Emacs is a sideshow at best.

Until you need to ssh into a server and edit something.

Re:From Vim to Emacs in fourteen days (2015) by BeetleB on Thursday March 11, 2021 @09:21PM (#26431566)
It's funny you mention that.

https://www.murilopereira.com/how-to-open-a-file-in-emacs/

The summary is that the author tried to open a remote file and Emacs froze for several seconds. He dived deep into finding out why that was and how to fix it, pointing out how great Emacs's introspection is that one can find solutions to problems like these.

And then two thirds of the way into his essay, he has this:

> More recently, I’ve been very put off by the performance and stability (or lack thereof) of building large scale software via Tramp. This has been sufficient to have me looking out again. On a whim, I installed VSCode for the first time and tried its “remote development” capabilities and holy smokes are they good. Getting up and running was trivial and the performance was great. Saving files was snappy and LSP worked out of the box. What a different experience from my carefully-put-together, half-working, slow Emacs setup.

And then later:

> Improve Tramp performance to match the experience of using terminal Emacs via SSH, or VSCode’s Remote Development.

Re:From Vim to Emacs in fourteen days (2015) by years3500 on Friday March 12, 2021 @02:15AM (#26433008)
Well for what it's worth, here is something about VS Code LSP and embrace-extend-extinguish.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25719338

Re:From Vim to Emacs in fourteen days (2015) by BeetleB on Friday March 12, 2021 @02:37AM (#26433141)
This isn't about LSP but specifically pylance. Let's not confuse the issue.

(Incidentally, I don't even use lsp on Emacs, although I may give it a try).

Re:From Vim to Emacs in fourteen days (2015) by years3500 on Friday March 12, 2021 @03:36AM (#26433449)
I think the thing is that pylance is a python LSP. And it's proprietary. So they embraced python LSP, extends it so that the additions are proprietary. And pylance might become the defacto python LSP. Typical EEE. Python is hugely popular, it's everywhere - so even if one hates it, might end up having to use it.

Also the remote extensions are proprietary [1]. This has been discussed on HN before.

[1] https://github.com/VSCodium/vscodium/issues/240

Re:From Vim to Emacs in fourteen days (2015) by BeetleB on Friday March 12, 2021 @10:53AM (#26437071)
> So they embraced python LSP

They did not embrace LSP. They invented it. LSP came from MS.

> And pylance might become the defacto python LSP.

Nothing is preventing someone from creating another python LSP that will work with the LSP tools. MS is not unique in this. Jetbrains makes proprietary products that are well embraced by the Python community.

Re:From Vim to Emacs in fourteen days (2015) by years3500 on Friday March 12, 2021 @12:10PM (#26438023)
> LSP came from MS.

Thanks, today I learned.

Yeah anyone is free to create, same as anyone is free to create remote extensions for VSCodium. So far nobody seems to have done it. Even if somebody does it, it might not match the quality and features of MS extensions.

MS has a history of EEE. Jetbrains doesn't, and as far as I know they are no bullshit no dark patterns high quality.

Re:From Vim to Emacs in fourteen days (2015) by BeetleB on Friday March 12, 2021 @12:58PM (#26438676)
I get where you're coming from. It's just amusing that many people talk about how great it is to use LSP with Emacs, but are simultaneously recommending not to use MS tools :-)

If one is concerned enough not to use VSCode because it is MS, then one should also not use LSP.

Re:From Vim to Emacs in fourteen days (2015) by years3500 on Friday March 12, 2021 @02:43PM (#26440037)
LSP is great. The thing about VSCode is dark patterns. VSCode is great, one sees that it's MIT licensed, downloads it uses it and is like wow nice. After a while realises that the official build is not FOSS licensed and contains telemetry code. So one finds 'VSCodium' which is a community port without telemetry. You carry on working but now remote things are not working. One looks why - the only reason is MS made it proprietary. Remote is essential for lots of developers. One feels f*cked by MS. Few years ago, Github's 'Atom' editor was getting popular. Then MS bought GH now Atom reduced to atoms - can't see it anywhere - though getting updated.
Re:From Vim to Emacs in fourteen days (2015) by daptaq on Monday March 15, 2021 @12:48PM (#26468343)
> They did not embrace LSP. They invented it. LSP came from MS.

I don't think this changes the issue: EEE became CEE (Create, Extend, Extinguish).

Re:From Vim to Emacs in fourteen days (2015) by 58028641 on Thursday March 11, 2021 @06:34PM (#26430428)
VS Code supports editing files over ssh. https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/remote/remote-overview
Re:From Vim to Emacs in fourteen days (2015) by jackosdev on Thursday March 11, 2021 @06:44PM (#26430491)
Yeah but you have to install 100+mb into a .vsserver folder to get it to work
Re:From Vim to Emacs in fourteen days (2015) by not_knuth on Thursday March 11, 2021 @07:34PM (#26430887)
sshfs?
Re:From Vim to Emacs in fourteen days (2015) by sigjuice on Thursday March 11, 2021 @08:52PM (#26431408)
Unfortunately, sshfs doesn't work on modern macOS.
Re:From Vim to Emacs in fourteen days (2015) by prurigro on Thursday March 11, 2021 @09:49PM (#26431743)
I just tested and it works for me, I'm fully up to date too.
Re:From Vim to Emacs in fourteen days (2015) by sigjuice on Thursday March 11, 2021 @11:17PM (#26432156)
That is great! I thought Big Sur had deprecated kernel extensions which would prevent osxfuse and sshfs from working.
Re:From Vim to Emacs in fourteen days (2015) by based8 on Friday March 12, 2021 @09:50AM (#26436368)
This always comes up. How can we still not edit a remote file via ssh using whatever you want!?!