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Re:Honda's now selling the first production car with level 3... by judge2020 on Thursday March 04, 2021 @10:55PM (#26352460)
> talk about things like “autopilot” instead of “driver assist”

As stated countless times before, autopilot in planes isn't even geared towards handing most flight scenarios or challenging conditions. Tesla is technically correct to call it this, even though this naming is confusing to consumers who think "plane flies itself" and think it means their car can drive itself in all conditions and avoid at-fault incidents - which most likely will indeed lead to more deaths.

Re:Honda's now selling the first production car with level 3... by ncallaway on Thursday March 04, 2021 @11:12PM (#26352592)
> As stated countless times before, autopilot in planes isn't even geared towards handing most flight scenarios

As stated countless times in response, it doesn't matter what autopilot actually does when the concern is the public perception of the marketing.

If "autopilot" sounds to the general public like "it drives itself" (which is the simple etymology of the word), then it doesn't matter one flying fig what autopilot on planes actually does.

Re:Honda's now selling the first production car with level 3... by Pyramus on Friday March 05, 2021 @04:09AM (#26354661)
Let's not forget that Tesla is well aware the car doesn't "drive itself" and have classified AP/FSD for legal/liability reasons as a level 2/3 system.

From a marketing perspective however, robotaxis are just around the corner.

Re:Honda's now selling the first production car with level 3... by labcomputer on Friday March 05, 2021 @12:50AM (#26353275)
Why isn’t there the same level of hand wringing over Ford’s “co-pilot”? Surely a copilot is even more capable than an autopilot.
Re:Honda's now selling the first production car with level 3... by ncallaway on Friday March 05, 2021 @12:56AM (#26353320)
This assumes that no one is hand wringing over Ford's marketing. I haven't seen as much of Ford's marketing as I have as Tesla's, so I personally have written as many words about it.

But I have the same concerns about all marketing that positions cars as being capable enough that people don't have to pay attention. Until we hit true Level 4 or Level 5 self driving cards, I'm extremely concerned about the public's perception that they don't have to operate a motor vehicle. *Especially* if the vehicle is capable of enough automated driving that the driver doesn't need to pay attention during most of the operation of the vehicle.

To your specific point though, I think in general the public would view something marketed at "autopilot" as more capable than something marketed as "co-pilot", despite the significant capability advantage that a "co-pilot" actually offers over an "autopilot" inside the cockpit of an airplane.

Re:Honda's now selling the first production car with level 3... by madamelic on Friday March 05, 2021 @10:40AM (#26358034)
The difference between Ford and Tesla is that Ford is "one of the good ones".

Not interested in leading the pack; happy enough to follow, crush smaller competition by their bloat, declare bankruptcy and take in hundreds of billions in handouts because of their irresponsibility and ineptitude.

Re:Honda's now selling the first production car with level 3... by ncallaway on Friday March 05, 2021 @06:28PM (#26363618)
Maybe that's the difference for other people, but it's not the difference for me.

Legacy branding doesn't mean anything when it comes to implementing and marketing self driving vehicles.

I care about the quality and level of the implementation, and the marketing positioning.

Re:Honda's now selling the first production car with level 3... by xmprt on Friday March 05, 2021 @01:31AM (#26353534)
Because unlike auto-pilot the implication of co-pilot is that you're still primarily in charge of flying/driving/piloting the vehicle.
Re:Honda's now selling the first production car with level 3... by NavinF on Friday March 05, 2021 @02:58AM (#26354098)
Umm no. Here's how it works

me: "you have the controls"

co-pilot: "I have the controls"

me: "you have the controls"

I am no longer flying the aircraft or even paying much attention to it. I could even get up and walk away from the controls. That's why co-pilots exist

Re:Honda's now selling the first production car with level 3... by ncallaway on Friday March 05, 2021 @10:18AM (#26357737)
The response I had earlier in the thread is absolutely applicable to this.

It doesn't matter. At. All. How the operations work inside the cockpit of an airplane. What actually happens in an airplane is 0% important to the conversation.

What actually matters is the public at large's perception of the term "autopilot" and their perception of the term "co-pilot". If the public perceives "co-pilot" as being less functional than "autopilot" then it does not matter at all that in aviation a co-pilot is actually more capable than an autopilot.

Re:Honda's now selling the first production car with level 3... by jiofih on Friday March 05, 2021 @02:35AM (#26353929)
It’s not, the co-pilot might fly the plane for most of the flight.
Re:Honda's now selling the first production car with level 3... by ben_bai on Friday March 05, 2021 @03:20AM (#26354276)
That would imply that people know aircraft-slang. Which they clearly don't.
Re:Honda's now selling the first production car with level 3... by FireBeyond on Friday March 05, 2021 @12:00PM (#26359083)
Common perception of a co-pilot is that a co-pilot _assists_ the pilot.

It's another perception/reality thing. I realize that the co-pilot shares the load, and is capable of being the pilot-in-charge, or having control of the aircraft. But one implies self piloting (Tesla), the other implies an intelligent assistant pilot.

Re:Honda's now selling the first production car with level 3... by wsinks on Friday March 05, 2021 @07:20PM (#26364002)
I think it's because of the general nature of the prefixes of the words.

Co-pilot says that the two of you are doing it together. Co-operatively.

Auto = automatic = you no longer have to do it.

Think of an automatic vs. stick shift car. And automatic car you no longer have to shift.

Re:Honda's now selling the first production car with level 3... by z3t4 on Friday March 05, 2021 @02:18AM (#26353820)
Just like tobaco is forced to print "this leads to cancer" on their products, self driving cars should have labels like "car crashing into wall" and "car killing other human".
Re:Honda's now selling the first production car with level 3... by jiofih on Friday March 05, 2021 @02:34AM (#26353925)
Please link to reports of a Tesla running over someone in AP.
Re:Honda's now selling the first production car with level 3... by spullara on Friday March 05, 2021 @01:59AM (#26353709)
Autopilot saves lives even in current state.
Re:Honda's now selling the first production car with level 3... by kaba0 on Friday March 05, 2021 @02:31AM (#26353902)
Based on what?

What could save lives is intelligent automatic breaking - because that is something we are currently capable of. Humans as a species is terrible at paying attention to boring tasks and quickly react - so these gimmick autopilot takes are dangerous if anything.

Re:Honda's now selling the first production car with level 3... by brabel on Friday March 05, 2021 @02:46AM (#26354002)
Most standard cars already come with emergency automatic breaking.
Re:Honda's now selling the first production car with level 3... by please-reread on Friday March 05, 2021 @05:35AM (#26355264)
Is that so? Now if they also could brake...
Re:Honda's now selling the first production car with level 3... by NavinF on Friday March 05, 2021 @03:01AM (#26354124)
That's exactly what self driving cars do, silly.
Re:Honda's now selling the first production car with level 3... by kaba0 on Friday March 05, 2021 @03:26AM (#26354322)
They do it as well on top of some other non-safe features. Less is sometimes more. Breaking when a pedestrian steps before us in sub-human reaction time is great - it doesn’t have to be combined with full self driving, which is simply really far away from now.
Re:Honda's now selling the first production car with level 3... by spullara on Friday March 05, 2021 @02:37AM (#26353938)
It does that as well. Have you ever driven one?
Re:Honda's now selling the first production car with level 3... by ineedasername on Thursday March 04, 2021 @11:17PM (#26352625)
The average consumer is not familiar enough with the limits of automated avionics to understand the limits of commercial jets' autopilot.

If the average consumer was also an airline pilot then it would make sense to use an industry term with nuanced meaning. Instead, the average consumer assumes a straightforward meaning of the term, especially with pop culture throwing out phrases like "planes practically fly themselves these days".

Claiming "autopilot is technically correct" would only approach being true if Tesla & others went into great detail to educate buyers about the limits of the avionic autopilot features referenced by the term, and difficulties of flying a plane in non-optimal conditions, so they actually understood the "technical" meaning and could apply it correctly to the car they're buying.

Re:Honda's now selling the first production car with level 3... by spullara on Friday March 05, 2021 @02:00AM (#26353718)
They tell you every time you engage it the limitations. Stop this fud. It is better than humans being in control.
Re:Honda's now selling the first production car with level 3... by maxerickson on Thursday March 04, 2021 @11:00PM (#26352500)
What are the rules to this "technically correct"?

It's not even flying the car!

Re:Honda's now selling the first production car with level 3... by ineedasername on Thursday March 04, 2021 @11:23PM (#26352668)
You need the latest Tesla firmware upgrade to activate flight. Or an unfinished bridge combined with lane tracking and an inattentive driver.
Re:Honda's now selling the first production car with level 3... by ck2 on Friday March 05, 2021 @12:36AM (#26353170)
Re:Honda's now selling the first production car with level 3... by nitinreddy88 on Thursday March 04, 2021 @10:58PM (#26352489)
The consumers are not techsavy like Tesla or HN world. Every word used for marketing should be wisely thought or we will end up with consequences
Re:Honda's now selling the first production car with level 3... by yread on Friday March 05, 2021 @01:14AM (#26353433)
I can't set target altitude nor heading on this thing, it can't use ILS, follow VORs. It doesn't make sense to call it autopilot
Re:Honda's now selling the first production car with level 3... by nelox on Friday March 05, 2021 @02:33AM (#26353917)
The passengers have no idea there are no pilots around when things don’t go as expected
Re:Honda's now selling the first production car with level 3... by jfoster on Friday March 05, 2021 @02:03AM (#26353734)
Remember how dangerous the roads were when the car companies producing cars without gear shifts started calling their cars "automatic" as opposed to manual?
Re:Honda's now selling the first production car with level 3... by totalZero on Friday March 05, 2021 @02:10AM (#26353780)
This is ridiculous. A transmission failure and a self-driving failure have very different implications. Automatic transmissions don't have pedestrians walking through them, etc.
Re:Honda's now selling the first production car with level 3... by brabel on Friday March 05, 2021 @02:50AM (#26354029)
You say this is ridiculous but your premise that these new "self-driving" cars are "walking trough pedestrians" is even more ridiculous and not backed by any data of real world experiments currently being undertaken.
Re:Honda's now selling the first production car with level 3... by upbeat_general on Friday March 05, 2021 @03:21AM (#26354281)
I think the point was that automatic transmissions are far simpler systems that are harder to screw up. And if you do screw them up it’s bad but not driving into pedestrians bad.

No, there’s not many self driving cars that have driven into pedestrians but Uber ATG’s car notably did, and there is certainly a lot of room for failure.

Re:Honda's now selling the first production car with level 3... by jfoster on Friday March 05, 2021 @06:57AM (#26355846)
Meanwhile, humans are driving into pedestrians every minute of every day, but yes, get upset about what Tesla called their system...