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Re:Robot AI beats world-class curling competitors (2020) by snarf21 on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @02:02PM (#26319006)
This is nonsense. Sure the robot is better at making consistently the same strength throws. This ignores brushing and making throws that depend on brushing. Watch the men's Canadian Championships this weekend (Brier) or the womens' that finished last weekend (Scotties). Watch them curl a stone 8 feet around others with brushing. This is like saying they can make a robot that hits 100% of fairways in golf. That doesn't make it better at golf than the top players.
Re:Robot AI beats world-class curling competitors (2020) by SamBam on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @03:53PM (#26320525)
I agree that the title is very poor. "Robot AI beats world-class curling competitors at throwing accuracy" would be better.

It's still an impressive feat.

Re:Robot AI beats world-class curling competitors (2020) by Apes on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @05:32PM (#26321999)
Even saying the "AI" beats the curling competitors at throwing accuracy isn't correct. The AI has access to a highly precise mechanisms for controlling the power it throws with. Would the AI actually be any better than the players if the players had access to a similarly high precision devices for controlling throwing power that the AI is using?
Re:Robot AI beats world-class curling competitors (2020) by throw_away on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @06:06PM (#26322436)
Oh, and I suppose Pitchomat 5000 was just a modified howitzer?
Re:Robot AI beats world-class curling competitors (2020) by EGreg on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @04:52PM (#26321418)
Up next

Jeopardy bot has faster fingers than human competitors

Re:Robot AI beats world-class curling competitors (2020) by 7800 on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @08:12PM (#26323467)
Following that

Wheel of Fortune bot, who knows the whole dictionary and was trained with the data of all past games, wins a car and waves from the passenger seat.

Re:Robot AI beats world-class curling competitors (2020) by EGreg on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @08:57PM (#26323775)
And spins the wheel to always land on the best option haha
Re:Robot AI beats world-class curling competitors (2020) by jvanderbot on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @04:43PM (#26321286)
"Humans become better at curling thanks to robotic assistance"

They're not foes. They're tools baselined against human performance.

Re:Robot AI beats world-class curling competitors (2020) by bisRepetita on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @03:20PM (#26320067)
OK, this is not perfect/equal. Does it make it "nonsense"? If something is not equal or perfect from the get-go is "nonsense", then I am not sure how we innovate.

Let's come back here in a few years. Robots may brush. We may talk about how innovation iterates, regardless of nay-sayer.

Re:Robot AI beats world-class curling competitors (2020) by rapind on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @03:31PM (#26320223)
I would agree with GP that having “beats” in the title when omitting that a key part of the game (sweeping) wasn’t included kinda makes it nonsense. It’s still neat though for sure.

Next up “robot beats F1 drivers” (on straightaway).

Re:Robot AI beats world-class curling competitors (2020) by tgb on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @04:09PM (#26320780)
The video seems to show it "beating" the team without either using brooms, but both still playing a game. I.e. they all have stones in play at once and therefore there is theoretically strategy not just accuracy. Am I wrong? I don't know anything about curling. It seems fair to call this "beating" - just not fair to call it curling.
Re:Robot AI beats world-class curling competitors (2020) by rapind on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @04:30PM (#26321094)
Technically sure, the robot won 3 out of 4 matches against world class curlers at something sort of like, but not really curling.

The implications from the title is that it beats them at curling. You certainly wouldn’t expect the article to be about a robot beating world class curlers at chess.

If sweeping wasn’t such an important part of the game (literally changing shots, which world class curlers would rely on as part of their throw technique) then the article would be fine.

Re:Robot AI beats world-class curling competitors (2020) by jussij on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @06:42PM (#26322791)
But why is is not curling?

It was played on a curling ring, with a curling stone, using the curling rules against curling players.

The robot just chose to play without a sweep, which I'm sure is still legal.

Re:Robot AI beats world-class curling competitors (2020) by ummonk on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @06:49PM (#26322874)
The humans weren't allowed to sweep either, so it wasn't curling.
Re:Robot AI beats world-class curling competitors (2020) by bisRepetita on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @03:54PM (#26320544)
>It’s still neat though for sure.

Exactly. I've stopped getting riled up about a catchy misleading headline. Life's too short. The interesting part is afer that.

Re:Robot AI beats world-class curling competitors (2020) by exporectomy on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @07:06PM (#26323028)
Yes. Buried deep in the paper "The matches allow only the thrower and skip player without sweepers". So the video showing sweeping was misinformation.

Also, the "top" teams it was playing against were two women's teams and a handicap team, so they won't have been the actual top - probably just chosen so they can use the term "top-ranked".

If they'd called it a "wheelchair curling robot", it would have been accurate.

A positive point though is that South korea has nearly the top ranked women and wheelchair curling teams in the world. So they didn't just choose some shitty country's national players to call them "world-class".

Re:Robot AI beats world-class curling competitors (2020) by lmilcin on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @08:19PM (#26323521)
This also irritates me.

Humans have built in limitations other than limited intelligence. For example, we have limited ability to remember stuff, our memory is not flawless, we can't perceive time or forces or distances with almost unlimited precision.

Claiming something is more intelligent than humans because it can use something else as leverage to accomplish the task is nonsense.

I am not better at calculating stuff in memory than you just because if I am allowed to use calculator and unlimited memory to beat you.

AI is not more intelligent at playing Starcraft because it can perfectly know what every single unit is doing at any point in time and can project exact resource goals into the future.

Re:Robot AI beats world-class curling competitors (2020) by jussij on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @06:34PM (#26322729)
The article states that the robot took on top ranked curling players and won 3 of 4 games.

So it looks like it won without the need for brushing.

Re:Robot AI beats world-class curling competitors (2020) by meetups323 on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @07:14PM (#26323089)
The opponents also were not allowed to brush. So it's not curling, it's ice shuffleboard. Which is still impressive, but not curling.
Re:Robot AI beats world-class curling competitors (2020) by onethought on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @07:28PM (#26323189)
Similar to the Deepmind boasts in Starcraft II... they beat highly ranked European players but not the top ranked Korean Players, and also they only played specific races (a key component in matchups).

Let me remove all the stuff humans are good at, and then boast how superior AI is to humans.

Re:Robot AI beats world-class curling competitors (2020) by Retric on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @08:11PM (#26323463)
Deepmind ended up consistently beating everyone including the world champion in SCII with near human view and input limitations. The initial press release was early in the process before letting it play on the SCII ladder. However, it kept getting better.
Re:Robot AI beats world-class curling competitors (2020) by onethought on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @09:12PM (#26323867)
Good to know. That's awesome they got that far!
Re:Robot AI beats world-class curling competitors (2020) by jonplackett on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @06:47PM (#26322846)
Isn’t brushing mostly just to help correct slightly imperfect throws though? This thing can just put whatever speed/spin on it needs to achieve the same effect. I don’t think that’s great AI though, just very accurate lobbing.
Re:Robot AI beats world-class curling competitors (2020) by RandallBrown on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @07:40PM (#26323273)
The name of the sport implies that it's more than just correcting imperfect throws.

I think the brushing can curve the stone more than just adding some spin. Also, you can brush so other stones move further after collisions.

However, I don't see why a "perfect" thrower couldn't beat a world class athlete if they're accurate enough.

Re:Robot AI beats world-class curling competitors (2020) by snarf21 on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @08:12PM (#26323464)
I'd encourage you to watch the finals of last years Brier. The brushing can do A LOT. Actually, brushing is so impactful that they have had to put limits on the brush composition in recent years because the materials have become so good that it barely mattered how close your shot was. People were moving the stone an incredible distance. Now the throw is much more important and sweeping can help but it can't move a stone 10 feet. [https://www.tsn.ca/broom-wars-a-thing-of-the-past-after-new-...]