While I agree with your argument, I want to call out a specific point:

> If they wanted you to play inside, they wouldn't use torque screws

Torque screws are superior to Phillips heads because they are far more resistant to cam-out; which is a bigger problem than needing to buy a screwdriver kit for $10 off eBay once in your life.

> Torque screws are superior to Phillips heads because they are far more resistant to cam-out[.]

I work at a repair shop currently, and can confirm this. Give me a Torq or a hex screw any day over a Phillips head.

You do have to be careful with them though, because once they do cam out, you're pretty much dead in the water, while with Phillips you can often hack your way around it.

Edit: I also agree with the rest of the argument. If you've got the budget (and I assume that if Apple is an option, you do), please consider buying something with Linux officially supported. Between Dell, Lenovo, and smaller scale setups like System76, there are plenty of options.

> please consider buying something with Linux officially supported. Between Dell, Lenovo, and smaller scale setups like System76, there are plenty of options.

My biggest complaint about them is heat and performance: my MBP seems to be almost always ready to take off. Apple really did hit the sweet spot with the M1 and I don't see x86 laptops catching up anytime soon. If they release 32+GB machines, I'll be seriously tempted to get my Macs refreshed even though I know they are essentially discardable machines now.

Also, Apple is the only manufacturer I can count on offering US keyboards without any hassle. Lenovo does that with Thinkpads and with Dell you need to work to find the models that are available with that option.

Those are all valid points. None of them are deal-breakers for me personally, but I understand how they can be.

I wish I could like the M1. I'm honestly really looking forward to ARM and RISC machines becoming more common, as long as there are manufacturers who make them at least somewhat reparable.

>ARM and RISC machines

What OS would they run? Linux?

I wonder if Windows will ever run on ARM/RISC?

Windows already runs on ARM.

Oh wow, I didn't know that.

The groundwork was done for embedded systems, but they added the desktop features and even make a few laptops with it now. But those are generally not very well-regarded, since the x86 emulation is slow and there is basically no native software.

Windows has run on non-x86 processors from at least the 90s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_NT#Supported_platforms

Oh, well that's not so good if it's just emulated x86.

The parent's argument stands, even if the details are slightly off.

Apple switched from torx to pentalobe screws because torx wasn't proprietary enough.

Also, they keyboard wasn't held down with 60+ screws, it was held down with rivets which is arguably worse. They could painstakingly be drilled, tapped, and replaced with screws if you were really masochistic.

> because torx wasn't proprietary enough

What does this even mean, when you can easily buy both types of screwdrivers at any hardware store?

Reportedly Torx, and later pentalobe screws are used because of their tiny size and lower profile, a philips head at that scale (0.8mm) is instantly stripped.

I agree that torx is useful. It's also an international standard.

Pentalobe is not an improvement over torx - torx was arguably working fine for Apple, but they decided to invent and start using a proprietary, non-standard screw anyway. The consensus at the time was that Apple did this to deliberately make it harder to get into their products.

The only reason you can find them now, 12 years later, is because third parties started to make the hardware, because it turns out getting into Apple hardware is something a lot of people eventually want or need to do.

Apple's attempt to lock you out of your own hardware didn't work, because ifixit and others spent tens of thousands of dollars on custom tooling. It was a big deal at the time, the hardware wasn't available anywhere, let alone at a hardware store.

> The consensus at the time

It was an angry article by iFixit that started the whole controversy. They could very well have done it for reasons related to licensing, or machinering, or space savings, or who knows what else. The fact the MBP 17" never used them, while the smaller models did, hints towards that.

You may have taken the stories at the time at face value, but within weeks you could buy pentalobe screwdrivers and they surely did not cost 'tens of thousands of dollars' to develop - screws are cold pressed and very simple to produce.

> they keyboard wasn't held down with 60+ screws, it was held down with rivets which is arguably worse. They could painstakingly be drilled, tapped, and replaced with screws if you were really masochistic.

I just replaced a keyboard in a Macbook Air. It is screws around the outside, then the dozens of rivets on the inside. If you're okay with the old keyboard being destroyed, you just rip it out: the rivets just pop out, and the replacement keyboard gets put back in with screws. So it was a pain, but the drilling/tapping isn't required.

Total cost $35, plus some quality time with my kid.

> Apple switched from torx to pentalobe screws because torx wasn't proprietary enough.

That was a simple and cheap change with clear benefits for Apple in terms of discouraging modifications to devices they support so the cost versus benefits actually makes sense for Apple there.

Whereas to suggest they designed a whole property storage controller interface just for the purpose of discouraging user servicing doesn't make sense at all. If that was the goal why not just use off-the-shelf NVMe modified to have some kind of secret power-on key or something?

Because there’s no way to spin that as a benefit for the user.

Optics is the most important factor and it’s something Apple’s marketing department does better than most companies.

There are lots of ways they could spin that as a benefit for the user (i.e. security).

It would be a poor explanation, but even when there's a good explanation, as you can see it is still dismissed as just "good optics". So how do you tell the difference between "good optics" and features that provide real benefit?

Some of my common CNC manufacturing runs use jigs with screws to hold odd-shaped products cut from large plate stock. I’ve tried many different styles of screws. Philips is great if you match the driver to the screw. The wrong driver will sort of work ok. If you buy a pack of Dewalt driver bits, you will note that each one is labeled. Match that label to your screws, and you should have a good fastener experience.

When I need to use a screw thousands of times, in manufacturing processes, I buy 18-8 Philips.

I use Torx only for one specific application: for user-serviceable finished products that have previously had support problems with idiots who can’t be bothered to select the right screwdriver. Some folks simply can’t do it. So, the most problematic products end up with Torx fasteners, which problematic customers mess up by using the wrong size Torx or even hex wrenches, and my support guys have a script for these problems that goes through “you didn’t use a T-10 wrench; there is nothing more to be said and nothing to be done for it. It’s black and white. Sorry.”

I understand proprietary screws being anti-consumer but torque screws?

Every building site I have been on almost exclusively used torque screws and every hardware store sells torque screwdrivers in every size. I wish more manufacturers would use torque screws since the heads don't show the same kind of wear.

And yes manufacturers aren't building their devices with them being repairable as primary design goal. This is understandable and there always will be a trade off. Even devices that are designed to be relatively easy to repair like Lenovo ThinkPads or HP Pro/EliteBooks have these trade-offs depending on the form factor.