I can state flatly that heavier than air flying machines are impossible. — Lord Kelvin, 1895
That money could be much better spent, like on tanks we will never use.
If we didn't have interest in space, there would be no SpaceX, Starlink, Mars rover, planetary missions, etc.
I personally think we're about to reach the terminal generation in 100-200 years with advancements in ML, and we won't be worried about sending human bodies anywhere. Just engines, sensors, and computers.
As such you could make these kinds of dismissive posts about every single human endeavour, why just complain about space research?
If you have these kinds of serious issues about humanity as a whole what are you doing to solve these problems that you perceive? It sounds to me like you're caught in a negativity loop and it isn't a good place to be in. If that's the case try and find something that you enjoy or take interest in and speculate about how you could make it better.
I have an on-going list with idea's I'd like to attempt. But I don't have the funding to carry them out. So I have to work, invest my own money with a limited target in attempt to help out.
I've started taking night classes in environmental studies, I daily go out and pick up trash. I don't eat meat, I recycle. I do all I can do. Every day I try to discover new methods on how I can do my part. If I didn't have to work, I could be focusing on research and working to a better environment but that's not possible. I'm doing all I can with the resources I have available with me but those itself are limited.
> If that's the case try and find something that you enjoy or take interest in and speculate about how you could make it better.
As much as I would like to, I can't. It's not like I can self-invest my time when I have to work eight hours a day to just allow myself to live. As much as I would love to start inventing to come up with new strategies, it's not possible. The interests I do have are underfunded, inaccessible without some sort of scientific degree and a life style where you have time for education.
How is space exploration different than these arguably frivolous activities? Should humans not use any resources for things that don't address these pressing issues you are talking about? I believe there are enough resources and wealth on earth to do all of these things, however, I, like you, disagree with how exactly the resources are being distributed. However, I don't think we need to single out space exploration, which I believe has potential for progress and expands human knowledge, as something we shouldn't be doing because of this unequal distribution.
I do agree with your sentiment about space increasingly being for the rich, with private companies and space tourism on the rise. However, I don't think all space exploration is and has to be this way
You earned that flag just for saying downvotes "prove your point", let alone the petty arguing.
But sure, reposting the first half of that comment without the extra hostility is pretty reasonable.
Retrospectively I do agree that the whole edited, down-votes comments may of been childish. But when people can just walk on by, down-vote without any justified meaning to why the down-votes are, I call them out; I do the same in real life.
Just about every technical advancement has benefited from space race everything from reducing size of electronics to the rumble strips on the side of the highway.
I think there are a few reasons you're getting downvotes, but they're involved enough that few are going to spare the effort to explain.
For example, all three of your last sentences are going to be strongly disagreed with and some people are going to read both a lack of thought on your part and a flawed way of thinking (ie. In terms of narrative, memes, drama) into those sentences and will decide it's not worth trying to engage and instead will just try and get rid of your message/you.
And just because we need them now doesn't make fair reason to space ventures.
Excluding the childish editorial remarks I made, the questions in which I pointed out are serious and are all pressing issues we currently face.
If they can be involved on clicking on a down arrow, they should be able to invest in to why they are clicking the down arrow. There was no attempt to fuel drama.
Those who are funding the space ventures are the ones who currently control the today and they don't exactly make it a pleasant place to be.
> Do you not believe people can focus on multiple different efforts
No, not really. Maybe if lucky but are you able to focus on multiple different efforts with the time and energy available?
Between our technologies, standard of living, relative peace, pushing exploration etc etc we're most definitely in a golden age relative to any other historical period. The problems we face are such that they relate to a continued and long term existential survival as a race and higher order concerns instead of mostly individual day to day survival for a majority of the worlds population and the fact we've even gotten far enough as a species to face such problems is in and of itself to be celebrated.
Hard times bring the most opportunity :)
And yes I personally focus on multiple different interests to a degree I make tangible impacts in all of them.
Currently we get it from fossil fuels, which is running out, heavily pollutes, and destroys the natural ecosystem. Nuclear was discovered, but it’s super complicated to handle and radioactive. Renewables are hit and miss, and must require a massive energy storage system in battery or water storage potential energy. Solar doesn’t always shine. Wind doesn’t always blow.
But in space, energy is infinite. For as far as we can see.
The problem is getting up there, and bringing it back down to earth.
But, what if we can harness it? In the form of solar collectors, and beam it back down to earth as microwaves or lasers. We can have vast fields of microwave collectors that can convert this energy back into electricity. Or laser receptors that can convert the laser back into electricity. No more pollution. No more environmental degradation. What you get is pure, clean, energy. All year round, day or night, rain or snow.
The challenges are great. The impossibilities are high. But the consequences of not achieving this is far worse.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_spinoff_technologies#:~....
A more useful one is the extensive of the satellite network which powers our ability to share and collaborate like we are doing now, along with the GPS network allowing us to travel more easily.
I hear you about the enviormental concerns and it's terrible how we are not aware or thoughtful about how all the externalities/problems which are created by new technologies. But to say we should not invest in space tech is a real step in the wrong direction if you care deeply about the environment. Some of the best energy capture technologies will come from our ability to master space travel, as well as the need to understand Terra forming other plants which will help us tackle climate problems here on earth.
I didn’t downvote but felt like this was worthy of a response.
Your whole perspective is a mechanical pragmatic one but the goal of a space program goes beyond that. It’s intended to be aspirational because we are species that wants to be inspired. It’s why NASA dedicates part of its mission to outreach. It’s also why a lot of countries have a space program when they have even larger problems to solve; it’s serves as both inspiration and national pride. If we only care about pragmatism, we might as well get rid of literature, music, art... you know the things that help make life worth living. Personally, I think doing hard, pioneering things to help inspire a populace is worth 0.45% of the national budget*
And from the extreme negativity in your post, a little inspiration might be of use to you, too.
* I also say this as someone who left the space industry to focus on an industry geared towards more immediate problems
Space will be a great thing, but when those in control of it, also control the damage of the current planet kind of makes moot of the whole two elements.
You could say the whole space venture is for the future, our kids, kids but how is there to be a future if we destroy the now?
I hate being stuck in the rut I am in, 31 and highly cynical. But from what I've experienced and seeing the decaying future gives less hope every day. I try hard to keep an optimistic type of view but it's bare threaded. Knowing that I've picked up four bin-bags daily of trash gives me hope that someday we can all be doing the same and that I've saved the planet a tiny bit.
I too also hope I can create awareness that turn a few heads with a few ideas but then with that you still run the extreme risk of being taken down for trying to promote a good deed.
> I’ll ask more directly: do you think 0.45% of the budget will solve those environmental problems enough to offset what is lost in aspirational benefit?
Yes, I do. If that 0.45% pushed towards environmental which helped develop new form of technology that returns well-being to the planet, then the aspiration wouldn't of been loss. Aspiration would return and would wager higher return including hope for humanity. It works both ways.
As like the current example on the front page at the moment about plant based recycling. That's inspirational but has much thought, time and money as of going in to space been invested in to that? Where would we be if did the same.
I'm just weighing down to what is more important now:
A lunar gateway, a space elevator. Or trying to harness the sun, clearing plastics from within the ocean? Fixing the planet we are on now, or living in space? It does currently show that people are more inspired by space than environmental science. Anything environmental is declared boring, it is boring. It doesn't yield the same practical results. As I mean you don't see the same result in the same sense as a new rocket, footage of a new planet. But regardless or not it is, which is more important?
I think the people who claim otherwise might benefit from looking at the actual relative funding.
It's strange that many people will happily discuss wasteful NASA programs like the Space Shuttle or the SLS years after the decision is made, but there's so much resistance to even considering that the currently proposed programs might end in a similar fashion.
Space really doesn't interest me, maybe it should. So it would be fair to say I am dumb on the subject and I would agree. Maybe it shows in my post. But my interests are on that we tackle those climate issues in the present now rather then waiting for an spinoff for a cure all. I don't disagree that the spin-offs are not great achievements. I want Lasek someday.
Geothermal, Renewable tech and the so is where my interests aim and I just don't see what the current space missions are achieving. Why do we need a lunar gateway? It feels like there is a whole private class wanting space to be their thing.
It would be fair to say there could be a rock on Mars or other distance planet that I dunno, could resolve environmental issue X. But when I see immature posts from entrepreneurs such as Elon, other rich classes such as Jeff, Richard Branson toying with new rocket can achieve turbo flames using precious resources turns me the other way. Especially when they're the ones contributing to the environmental problems we currently live with. That's what leaves me unconvinced. And yes you could say Elon's venture of Tesla is start of the electric car revolution but that should of happened many years ago. But is better then nothing.
It's hard to take a positive stance that space exploration is for the good when we have governments of evil, greed wanting to watch, control and who currently rule the planet that way and sure would love to rule the universe in the same nasty way. Same with technology used as a snooping device, data mining and monitoring for other big companies. How can you convince me that Starlink isn't being used to spy on others? The internet is a waste-land as it is.
I am not saying stop all space exploration nor that we shouldn't fund such programs but there is so much time & investment in to space lately that could be funneled in to beneficial fixes to the environmental problems of the now allowing produce of real technology rather waiting for the next spin-off. Anytime I come across something space, it looks and feels gritty for selfish greed rather then to help cause X of this planet. If there was a vibe of "Mars travel and we are going to work on solving environmental problems too" then I would view it differently.
Lets face it, there has never been true money pushed forward to resolving on-land problems and we let those who destroy off the hook.
However, thank you the further resources on such.
There are tons of serious problems to solve here on earth, no need for another huge waste of money.