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Re:Judge: Citibank isn't entitled to $500M it sent to variou... by speeder on Thursday February 18, 2021 @11:11AM (#26181589)
I think the only cases of major system failures that could be blamed on human error, are ones where people INTENTIONALLY did wrong stuff, sadly, these cases do exist and were very lethal.

1. First nuclear accident: the theory is one operator was upset that another operator was screwing his wife, and removed the control rods 100% when he was scheduled to work on them, causing a sudden spike in temperature and then a water hammer that killed everyone in the building. (and made it JUMP!!!)

2. Chernobyl, although many people (specially anti-nuclear) blame the accident on the design, it was obvious deliberate error, even if the intentions weren't malicious, the operators ignored alarms, then DISABLED the alarms, and intentionally pushed the reactor past safety limits, even if it didn't had the design flaw it had, it was possible they would still find a way to blow it up if they kept their behaviour.

3. Depressed airline pilot, locked co-pilot out of the cockpit and crashed on the ground on purpose.

There are probably other situations out there... thing is, those are situations no matter how well the system is designed, it will still happen, it is impossible to make a "malicious-proof" system, after all, even a rock, with zero moving parts, can be used in the "wrong way" and kill someone.

Re:Judge: Citibank isn't entitled to $500M it sent to variou... by DevX101 on Thursday February 18, 2021 @11:54AM (#26182238)
There's a good argument that these are still system failures. If a single individual can intentionally blow up a nuclear reactor, that's a massive point of failure. Humans are often irrational and prone to anger, depression, malice, and greed. Any of those impulses could be motivation for destructive action. Nuclear submarines avoid this by requiring multiple personnel to simultaneously coordinate in activating a launch.

On Chernobyl, my take away from the excellent Netflix mini-series was that there was a massive cultural failure, where everyone abdicated responsibility, and there no ability for employees to counter poor decisions from superiors. Culture and organizational design are also important components of complex systems

Re:Judge: Citibank isn't entitled to $500M it sent to variou... by asoneth on Thursday February 18, 2021 @12:49PM (#26183051)
I don't have any insight into why the Chernobyl's operators disabled the alarms, but there is a very common effect known as "alarm fatigue" [1] whereby poorly-tuned alarm thresholds are ignored or actively sabotaged by operators so that they can perform their regular work. For legal & CYA reasons system designers often set alarm thresholds so low that false alarms are extremely common. When operators naturally start to tune out the constant background alarms then the designer can either fix the issue by making better alarm thresholds or they can make the alarms more insistent which sets off an arms race for operator attention.

If you're interested in specific stories I'd recommend "Set Phases on Stun" by Steven Casey. (It shows up in the syllabus of a number of Human-Computer Interaction classes.)

But as a general heuristic: If one operator has trouble dealing with the number of false alarms you can just hire a new operator, but if most of the operators find it problematic then the problem clearly isn't with the operators.

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alarm_fatigue

Re:Judge: Citibank isn't entitled to $500M it sent to variou... by laurent92 on Thursday February 18, 2021 @03:12PM (#26184828)
> Alarm fatigue

The notable example of alarm fatigue is the designated pillow on board of the Tu-144 (the Russian copy of the Concorde) to stuff into the alarm horn. The wikipedia page is itself a “bestof” bad engineering/operating practices, which are worth a good laugh now that it is not flying anymore. See chapter “Reasons for cancellation” - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-144

Re:Judge: Citibank isn't entitled to $500M it sent to variou... by myself248 on Thursday February 18, 2021 @08:06PM (#26188168)
It blows my mind that this is still a problem; Western Electric was already making allowances for it in what I believe to be the 1930s:

Most telephone hardware has some form of self-checking and fault detection. Alarms are classified into "minor" and "major", sometimes also "power" or "critical". Each piece of equipment has its own alarm indicator lamps, and contacts for external alarms as well. Typically the external contacts are wired to both an "aisle light" which aggregates all the equipment in that lineup, and a floor-wide or section-wide "alarm sounder". When the sounder goes off, you look down the aisle to see which lineup has the trouble, then walk down the lineup to find the individual unit and address the problem.

But first, you push the ACO button. The alarm cutoff button silences the sounder, which won't come back on unless something new happens. ACO also tells the other workers that someone is on the case.

Crucially, it preserves attention. If the sounder was going the whole time someone was working on a repair, nothing would ever get done, because the workers would be down at the corner bar trying to get some sanity back.

Re:Judge: Citibank isn't entitled to $500M it sent to variou... by asoneth on Thursday February 18, 2021 @10:20PM (#26189228)
In my experience it's sometimes a result of mismatched incentives resulting in a prisoner's dilemma rather than a lack of awareness or engineering ability.

The designer responsible for an alarm wants to avoid being blamed for the operator missing that specific alarm so they're incentivized to make their alarm as prominent as they can get away with. Of course once most designers are doing that then they have to keep doing it or risk get drowned out.

One way to fix that is by having someone who is responsible for the entire experience who can dictate shared prioritization, requirements, alerting frameworks, rate limiters, etc. In cases where the operator uses multiple products from different companies (e.g. in a hospital) that's especially hard which is why there's a cacophony of noise even though everyone involved acknowledges that it's a problem.

Re:Judge: Citibank isn't entitled to $500M it sent to variou... by myself248 on Friday February 19, 2021 @01:10PM (#26196003)
> In cases where the operator uses multiple products from different companies (e.g. in a hospital) that's especially hard

Somehow this works just fine in telecom. I was handling equipment from DSC, Alcatel, Fujitsu, Marconi, Rockwell, Cerent, Nortel, Pirelli, CarrierAccess, Tellabs, Cisco, ADC, Lucent, and more. There are Telcordia and NEBS standards for alarm severity and wiring, and everything just works when you hook it up. Does the medical industry not have standards?

Re:Judge: Citibank isn't entitled to $500M it sent to variou... by asoneth on Monday February 22, 2021 @10:09AM (#26225362)
I've heard from colleagues in the (US) medical industry that there are guidelines from the likes of AAMI and ECRI but few real "requirements". My second-hand understanding is that it's largely dependent on how much leverage the end-users (doctors and nurses) have to dictate system requirements and how much leverage the hospital system has with respect to negotiating with suppliers.

Ref:

https://www.ecri.org/alarm-safety-handbook

https://www.jointcommission.org/resources/patient-safety-top...

Re:Judge: Citibank isn't entitled to $500M it sent to variou... by dreamcompiler on Thursday February 18, 2021 @02:12PM (#26184138)
Alarm fatigue might have played a minor role in Chernobyl but the main cause was authoritarian management trying to meet a scheduled deadline to run a test that the reactor was incapable of running safely in its current operational state. They purposely ignored the alarms in order to run the test. There was also a design flaw nobody knew about (positive void coefficient) that caused the scram make things worse, but they'd never have needed to scram if the deputy chief engineer on duty had cared more about safety than meeting his milestone.
Re:Judge: Citibank isn't entitled to $500M it sent to variou... by hinkley on Thursday February 18, 2021 @05:02PM (#26186297)
Engineers constantly rail against the “mind over matter” hubris of managers. If at first they are right they just push their luck again and again.
Re:Judge: Citibank isn't entitled to $500M it sent to variou... by hinkley on Thursday February 18, 2021 @04:51PM (#26186171)
I rediscovered this effect myself and it’s why I harp on people for flaky tests. Eventually you discover the build has been broken for hours, everyone assumes they’re just the same old errors, and pushes rebuild without even looking at the error messages.

Everyone does it. I’ve caught myself doing it. So I move to the previous domino and work on that.

Re:Judge: Citibank isn't entitled to $500M it sent to variou... by zimpenfish on Thursday February 18, 2021 @05:13PM (#26186436)
Same goes for log output - if you get thousands of lines every day, no-one ever looks at the logs and things get missed. If you only get log messages when things are really broken, people actually notice.
Re:Judge: Citibank isn't entitled to $500M it sent to variou... by Macha on Thursday February 18, 2021 @05:42PM (#26186828)
I mean, this is what log levels are for. My personal standard is log level error is for things raising an alert over that you need a human to look at, warning is for stuff that can raise an alert if it goes over a threshold, info is only for looking at when a problem has already been identified, so that you can try understand the lead up to the problem, and debug is incredibly spammy stuff only turned on when the above gives insufficient details to recreate the problem locally.
Re:Judge: Citibank isn't entitled to $500M it sent to variou... by hinkley on Thursday February 18, 2021 @06:00PM (#26187041)
Stats are good for things that may be a problem or may not. It’s hard to get a sense of rate with log analysis. You can, but comparing several stats to each other at once is painful.
Re:Judge: Citibank isn't entitled to $500M it sent to variou... by dghlsakjg on Thursday February 18, 2021 @08:48PM (#26188513)
My car dashboards (and most cars as far as I know) are actually a good example of avoiding alarm fatigue.

Red lights mean that the sensors have detected a state that may damage the car or put you in danger. You should stop immediately. Examples: low oil pressure, overheat, emergency brake still on, low brake fluid. You can safely tell a new driver that if they are driving and they see a red light on the dash it means stop right now.

Yellow means that something is operating outside of nominal ranges and you should try and fix it soon. Examples: low tire pressure, low washer fluid, check engine light.

Re:Judge: Citibank isn't entitled to $500M it sent to variou... by lawrjone on Friday February 19, 2021 @09:26AM (#26193458)
There's an excellent talk from Nick Means (GitHub) called "Who Destroyed Three Mile Island?".

Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xQeXOz0Ncs

One thing it discusses is how the alerts inside the control hub were so noisy, and were logged via a reasonably slow printer, that the alerts which suggested the reactor was in serious trouble only printed hours after you could do anything.

And the alert light that said "shits fucked" was placed right next to the light about an elevator being out of order.

Human error is rarely intentional, and even if it is, a system that fails in response has missed the mark. The talk explains the amazing finds made by the government committee hired to investigate the incident, once they left the idea of 'human error' at the door.

I do suggest you watch the video, but as a teaser: it turned out that at the time, most US nuclear engineers had been sourced from nuclear subs. Subs have totally different rules on how to manage the reactor, and train their staff inappropriately for a land-based reactor. Pretty significant cultural find...

Re:Judge: Citibank isn't entitled to $500M it sent to variou... by bityard on Thursday February 18, 2021 @01:12PM (#26183343)
> the theory is one operator was upset that another operator was screwing his wife

That's _one_ theory and it's not even the most likely one, it's just the only one they like to trot out whenever a History Channel producer needs to fill time between ads.

The control rods in SL-1 were prone to getting stuck in their channels for a variety of reasons. They were apparently not light either, as part of the investigation for the accident, they built a mockup control rod assembly that was weighted at 84 pounds. For military-age adult male, this is right in the range being able to move, without a lot of control over how _much_ it is moved.

It is, however, clearly a design failure that the removal of a single rod allowed the reactor to go critical, and/or that the rod was able to be removed by a human to the extent it was.

Re:Judge: Citibank isn't entitled to $500M it sent to variou... by MauranKilom on Thursday February 18, 2021 @11:28AM (#26181844)
Re:Judge: Citibank isn't entitled to $500M it sent to variou... by ekimekim on Thursday February 18, 2021 @12:55PM (#26183135)
For 1, it should be noted that that is only one theory. Another less lurid theory is that while attempting to pull the rod a small distance out as part of a routine maintenance procedure, the rod stuck. The operator gave it a yank to unstick it and accidentially withdrew it the whole way.