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Re:What went wrong with the Texas power grid? by theshrike79 on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @01:51AM (#26163476)
> I don't think any completely lost heat (most have gas) but at least one person found their gas fireplace they were hoping would heat them up when out of power didn't really work that well.

American fireplaces in general are a joke. You are just spending way too much energy and not really storing it anywhere except the air around it. They are built to look good, not to actually heat anything properly.

Check any Nordic country, we don't have gas fireplaces nor do we have the silly tiny iron things you have. What we do have is stone fireplaces. [1]

How it works is this: You heat the multi-hundred kg stone mass using any material you want, for us it's usually wood in some form. After the stone is hot enough, you stop wasting wood and close the chimney when the fire has burned out to prevent heat from escaping.

The stone mass will store heat and distribute it slowly and evenly over many hours, keeping everyone warm without electricity. If you want to distribute it, there are fans that operate on the radiant heat coming from the fireplace. A properly installed fireplace (central to the house) will keep a normal home toasty warm for a day or two with one proper heating cycle depending on how cold it's outside.

[1] https://www.tulikivi.com/en

Re:What went wrong with the Texas power grid? by tallanvor on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @06:35AM (#26165261)
Why would most places bother with the expense of a fireplace really designed to heat a room?

I can assure you that most new construction in Oslo (pretty much only apartments these days) don't include fireplaces. And why would they? With steam pipes running through much of the city, there's no need for the expense and pollution involved with a fireplace except for show anyway.

The fact is that cities in the US, like in Europe, generally have very reliable power and gas supplies, so they don't need to build fireplaces designed to actually heat the place, and we don't want to encourage people in cities to burn wood to heat their place anyway. So showplace fireplaces, especially the gas ones, are a better solution for allowing people to have the cozy feeling when they want it.

Re:What went wrong with the Texas power grid? by makomk on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @07:00AM (#26165427)
Cities in the US and Europe have very reliable power and gas supplies, until suddenly they don't. The trouble is that people have started to take the reliability of the power grid for granted and stopped thinking about what happens when it inevitably fails.
Re:What went wrong with the Texas power grid? by Ma8ee on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @07:20AM (#26165553)
We take metric shit tons for granted in our everyday lives. The risk that we will be out of power for more than a few hours where I live is very small, so I chose to save the about $10000 that it cost to install a fireplace and a chimney, so I’m instead prepared if I get long time sick, unemployed, or the car breaks down. All of those risks are order of magnitude higher than that we would be without electricity for any extended period of time.
Re:What went wrong with the Texas power grid? by ghaff on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @08:18AM (#26165956)
For that matter, as someone who lives in New England, if I wanted to install backup for extended power outages (which do happen where I am now and then), the sensible thing to do would be to get a propane-fueled generator installed because that would work if I were traveling (to keep pipes from freezing) and would also keep refrigerators running in a summer outage. (Added: Maybe a Powerwall-type thing would make sense today.)

I do have a fireplace and a wood stove which provide something of a backup but won't heat the whole house and only work if I'm there.

Re:What went wrong with the Texas power grid? by vidarh on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @08:01AM (#26165822)
We've started taking it for granted because it works. It's ~35 years or so since last time I experienced an outage longer than a few minutes, and enough years since I experienced any outage that I can't remember when it was.
Re:What went wrong with the Texas power grid? by theshrike79 on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @06:46AM (#26165354)
Of course apartments in city centres shouldn't have wood burning fireplaces in them. This discussion wasn't about multi-story apartments, but about the uselessness of American-style fireplaces in detached homes.
Re:What went wrong with the Texas power grid? by tallanvor on Thursday February 18, 2021 @02:09AM (#26176895)
Except they're not useless. They simply have a different use than heating the home. You may not agree with the use case, but that doesn't change the fact that they work fine for what they were designed to do.
Re:What went wrong with the Texas power grid? by varjag on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @06:26AM (#26165216)
There are absolutely countless iron fireplaces here in Norway, they been the most popular installations for decades.

The modern ones with afterburn contour are also quite efficient in energy output per unit fuel burned.

Re:What went wrong with the Texas power grid? by vidarh on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @08:10AM (#26165890)
Jøtul [1], one of the the largest manufacturers of fireplaces in Norway has been around since 1853, manufacturing mostly cast iron fireplaces.

The considerations are different, though. Cast iron is great if you want to radiate as much heat as possible as fast as possible or need to heat a small area (e.g. single room per heater). There's a reason small cast-iron Jøtul fireplaces used to be the stereotypical heater for cabins etc. in Norway.

[1] https://www.jotul.com/

Re:What went wrong with the Texas power grid? by bklyn11201 on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @10:43AM (#26167610)
Sterotypical for the United States also! While brands like Vermont Castings have become quite common (founded 1975 after Middle East oil embargo), we often see old Jøtul in New York cabins, hunting lodges, etc.
Re:What went wrong with the Texas power grid? by ghaff on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @10:50AM (#26167710)
Jøtuls are fairly readily available in the US as well. When I wanted to put a small woodstove in a new sunroom a few years back, the local woodstove dealer recommended the small Jøtul over the equivalent Vermont Castings because they said it drew better.
Re:What went wrong with the Texas power grid? by paraselene_ on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @02:32AM (#26163709)
Or you know, instead of having a whole fireplace, just get a kerosene heater? Enough to heat a whole room in case of power&gas outages, last long enough through the night on one fill, and kerosene can be had at a gas station.
Re:What went wrong with the Texas power grid? by ScottBurson on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @04:43AM (#26164561)
But used indoors, it consumes oxygen, and can produce carbon monoxide. Leaving it on while you sleep is dangerous.
Re:What went wrong with the Texas power grid? by hcurtiss on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @10:23AM (#26167315)
There are many kerosene heaters safe for indoor use.
Re:What went wrong with the Texas power grid? by DoingIsLearning on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @04:17AM (#26164378)
I am not sure why you got downvoted, this is a good backup strategy.

I have natural gas heating and a combi smart boiler which runs on electricity. Even if I still have the gas link operational, if my power goes down then my heating is dead.

This news of Texas actually reminded, that I should have some sort of emergency winter heating backup, and a boat or camping kerosene heater is a actually a pretty solid idea for emergencies.

Re:What went wrong with the Texas power grid? by theshrike79 on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @05:10AM (#26164747)
The whole prepper community isn't completely crazy. Everyone really should have a Bug Out Bag or a Bug In Bag ready or at least under construction.

You don't need to go overboard with tons of dried food and a nuclear fallout shelter. Just a cheap multi-fuel camping stove and some canned food will last you a few days easily.

Re:What went wrong with the Texas power grid? by katbyte on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @01:08PM (#26169502)
Bug out/in bag seems like a weird term, kinda adds to the “crazy” of preppies. here it’s just called your emergency/ earthquake kit - 1-2 weeks of food and some amount of water.
Re:What went wrong with the Texas power grid? by batty_alex on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @07:15AM (#26165516)
Please don’t run a kerosene heater indoors without an amazing ventilation system.
Re:What went wrong with the Texas power grid? by fckthisguy on Thursday February 18, 2021 @09:59AM (#26180543)
These are great for emergencies and the odd occasion where the regular building heating isn't enough.

I think Cast Iron or stone fireplaces serve a different purpose, in most cases. They're for show, and novelty.

Re:What went wrong with the Texas power grid? by theshrike79 on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @03:04AM (#26163878)
Pretty much anything actually built to heat stuff is better than the all-looks-no-function "fireplaces" the Americans seem to be in love with. The ones they like to mount their TVs over, despite the neck pain.
Re:What went wrong with the Texas power grid? by fractionalhare on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @06:40AM (#26165300)
I don't think you can generalize American fireplaces. Every fireplace I've personally encountered has been traditional wood burning and absolutely heats up the room well past the time the fire is actually lit (American Northeast). I haven't actually been in a home with a gas-burning fireplace.

But more importantly - the gas fireplaces are intended to look nice with minimal effort. They are explicitly not intended to change the indoor climate much if at all. They're usually built in very new homes that have dedicated, reliable climate control systems or in cities that don't require much heating.

Re:What went wrong with the Texas power grid? by dhagz on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @09:03AM (#26166350)
I can agree with that last statement. Every house I've seen has had a gas fireplace, but I live in the metro area of a city that (in)famously only owned a single snowplow.
Re:What went wrong with the Texas power grid? by Cederfjard on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @06:07AM (#26165096)
You have a slightly condescending tone here that I'm not sure is necessary. Perhaps they're "all-looks-no-function" because they're mostly meant to be decorative rather than functional?
Re:What went wrong with the Texas power grid? by todd8 on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @07:58AM (#26165806)
Here, in Central Texas, my home has three fireplaces. Each designed to accommodate wood, but all have gas feeds that make it possible to run them without the smoke of wood fires. We don't run them for heat nor decorative effect. The are just architectural features of the house that some people might choose to utilize for the mood that a fire can convey.

They are a bit like windows: not energy efficient but nice to look at/through.

During the historic cold weather going on this week, I have no confidence that they would help if the power went off.

Re:What went wrong with the Texas power grid? by dghlsakjg on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @09:47AM (#26166828)
You are stereotyping a country of hundreds of millions that spans climate zones ranging from Hawaiian tropics to the arctic circle.

Yeah. There are decorative fireplaces. The Norwegian company Rais sells some great decorative ones.

There are also incredibly efficient cast iron stoves that some people use for heat. You made fun of them in another comment, but they are much more efficient than a fireplace, and can use a variety of fuels like pellets or gas in addition to wood.

Of course, there are also people that have a standard wood fireplace that you imply is in every Norwegian home. Most people don’t use them here since they are so inefficient, dangerous and illegal in cities due to the pollution.

Re:What went wrong with the Texas power grid? by mikeytown2 on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @11:27AM (#26168188)
You can do a hybrid approach with the hot metal burn chamber for wood gas and earthen materials to slowly radiate the heat. This is called a rocket mass heater. The exhaust temperature is usually below 100C and often smokeless (a complete burn). Using a fan to extract heat from the final vertical stack (pipe around the exhaust with air running by) can give you an exhaust temperature of around 40C. Here's a quick 3 minute video that explains the concept; there's other YouTube videos that go into greater details if you wish to research this topic more. https://youtu.be/fwCz8Ris79g