This argument has been made for years and I’ve yet to see it really be true.

You can make anything with anything, but Rails is the closest thing to an Aspect Oriented Programming environment that I’ve seen in the wild. It’s not easy to replicate that type of ecosystem with any other framework. I’ve spent ample time on teams using Go, Python, PHP, Java and C#.

There’s just no comparison vs what a small Ruby team can accomplish.

I really agree with this statement. I've never seen anything like Rails in Java/JavaScript land. In Java there's SpringBoot but its nowhere near a cohesive package with a strong online community behind it like Rails. It's more of a collection of libs put together with a good enough attitude.

I have seen multiple PHP projects at multiple companies go totally pear-shaped. I refuse to work at companies that use PHP anymore.

Same experience. I've seen nice PHP projects on the internet, but not yet in RL. I know its possible, i guess its just that the language does not reward you for corecctness.

PHP used to actually have a performance penalty for splitting things up into modules and using object oriented design, because it meant loading and parsing more files on each request.

I was trying to do that on my first big PHP project, and got called out. The architect said "your code is too good, PHP is for writing crap". If you are going to write good code, you should do it in another language.

Symfony framework is a great example of a PHP framework written by Java programmers. All the same verbosity as Java, but without the benefits of Java.

Ok? I've seen projects go pear-shaped in probably 20 different programming languages at this point, and I guess after a certain point of experience, you start to realize that failures seldom have to do with the programming languages themselves, and more about the people actually writing and managing the code (and everything else around development).

When the 3 biggest disaster projects I've ever had to touch were all in PHP, I choose to believe that is a trend.

Yes, you can write bad code in any language.

PHP makes it hard NOT to. The footguns are all sitting out in the open, loaded, and the safeties are off.

Well, if you're not interested in factual discussions and you simply "choose to believe trends", all bets are off since you're pulling in your feelings about a programming language into your arguments. Hope all goes well for you anyway!

As a counter-point, the biggest disasters I've seen has been involving either C++ or C#, but in the end I think the reason they were disasters were because of the programmers (and their ego) rather than the programming languages they worked with. C++ is plenty open and without safeties, but that doesn't mean you have to use it like that.

Constant factors vary framework to framework. I can't say I've ever seen anyone move as fast on Symfony as on Rails.

Symfony might be the odd one of the bunch.

Jokes aside, Laravel is probably a more likely contender to provide a Rails experience for PHP.

And it's easy to get clouded by anecdotal data, I'm sure I'm biased as well. But after some time in the industry, it matters more who the person is that is using the framework, than the framework itself. If you put an equally skilled developer with the same amount of experience in either Symfony or Rails, I'm sure they can be as productive as the other. But then skilled developers tend to gravitate towards Rails more than Symfony, so hard to judge in the real world.

What Rails-equivalent framework does Golang have?

I myself usually opt for the "small set of composable libraries" way of development nowadays, but I've worked with teams using Buffalo and Beego which kind of provides a "batteries included" approach that Rails follows too.

I found Revel to be quite similar.

I would say it is as productive as rails too.

There is no ActiveRecord and way way less magic which slows (initial) development speed but it pays off in less bugs to fix.

So overall development speed is roughly the same. But with Go you gain co routines and nice performance which can make life a lot easier.

Gos type system, while somewhat poor, still helps too.

The worst part of the whole thing is actually the weird Go std lib templating.

Same question but for Node.

NodeJS has even more "batteries included" frameworks than Golang. Sails, Hapi, NestJS and Adonis are probably the most popular right now, at least from my viewpoint (traditional SaaS web development)