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Re:Microbial ecosystems in the mouth and gut are linked to m... by andrewzah on Friday February 12, 2021 @03:10PM (#26118000)
This is something that I've been thinking about lately.

Last ~May, I spontaneously developed rashes exactly in the middle of the back of my hands at the same time. This lead to skin sensitivity and ultimately skin rashes across my body.

At this point I've visited my dermatologist what, 20 times? In addition to my general physician, bloodwork, etc. Biopsies and bloodwork and other tests don't show anything abnormal, asides from excessively high IgE - 600 and now about 1,000. I recently started on Dupixent but it's too early to tell if it's helping or not.

There doesn't seem to be any clear indicator, so I'm wondering if I ate something + stress, which affected my gut microbiome. My family has no history of this sort of issue and it seriously started about overnight.

Re:Microbial ecosystems in the mouth and gut are linked to m... by nerdponx on Friday February 12, 2021 @05:02PM (#26119061)
There's almost never harm in trying an elimination diet. Cycle out one major food at a time (eg wheat, eggs, milk, meat, nightshades, seafood), for a couple weeks at a time.

Maybe start gradually introducing fermented "live" foods as a matter of routine.

Worst that happens is you eat more veggies and try out a different diet. And if you find something that helps, all the better.

It's pretty well known now that skin conditions can be related to gut conditions.

Re:Microbial ecosystems in the mouth and gut are linked to m... by andrewzah on Friday February 12, 2021 @06:08PM (#26119630)
So I have done this for major things like coffee, milk, wheat. For about a week or so at a time. I guess I can try each again for 2+ weeks... However I'm not convinced the current issue (itching) is related. The symptoms only really present themself at night when going to bed, as I guess I have no other stimuli to focus on. During the day it's basically not an issue.

I plan on trying longer fasts (3days, 5days), maybe 7days as well.

Re:Microbial ecosystems in the mouth and gut are linked to m... by joshspankit on Friday February 12, 2021 @07:27PM (#26120279)
There are a whole host of possible insensitivities (many people are surprised by nightshades for example: potatoes, tomatoes, bell peppers, eggplant. They all share a plant family). Pay attention also to any products you’re directly applying to your skin as there might be ingredients in there that are being absorbed.
Re:Microbial ecosystems in the mouth and gut are linked to m... by DoreenMichele on Saturday February 13, 2021 @05:38AM (#26122771)
Just a couple of random thoughts:

A food and symptom journal can be helpful for trying to connect the dots.

High IgE levels can be due to parasitic infections and these have something of a tendency to go underdiagnosed in the US because they get seen as "third world problems."

Re:Microbial ecosystems in the mouth and gut are linked to m... by andrewzah on Saturday February 13, 2021 @11:52PM (#26129793)
"A food and symptom journal can be helpful for trying to connect the dots."

This is a good idea, I will try this once I start cutting out foods again.

"High IgE levels can be due to parasitic infections and these have something of a tendency to go underdiagnosed in the US because they get seen as "third world problems."

How does one go about testing this? I visited my gp multiple times and a bunch of tests were taken. Aside from the general itching and rashes, I don't really have other symptoms. Maybe a little fatigue occasionally.

Re:Microbial ecosystems in the mouth and gut are linked to m... by DoreenMichele on Sunday February 14, 2021 @12:26AM (#26129933)
"A food and symptom journal can be helpful for trying to connect the dots."

This is a good idea, I will try this once I start cutting out foods again.

You should start the journal now. You need to establish a baseline to compare things to. Start it well before you start making changes and don't make more than one change per week. Reactions to changes can be delayed and it's pretty complicated stuff.

How does one go about testing this?

Sorry, I don't know. I never figured out the secret handshake or whatever to get the medical system to give me the right test to actually identify my infection.

I looked up my symptoms online, drew my own conclusions and I've gradually gotten healthier, though I get treated extremely abusively for trying to talk about it online so I got nothing more for you than the two tidbits above.

Best of luck.

Re:Microbial ecosystems in the mouth and gut are linked to m... by 80mph on Saturday February 13, 2021 @07:29AM (#26123233)
>>The symptoms only really present themself at night when going to bed, as I guess I have no other stimuli to focus on. During the day it's basically not an issue.

Do you take night showers? If your house has hard water or your water dept. adds excessive chlorine, then either of those could be the culprit.

Re:Microbial ecosystems in the mouth and gut are linked to m... by ews on Saturday February 13, 2021 @02:32AM (#26122052)
This could be ringworm. Have you see any particular patterns on your spots ?
Re:Microbial ecosystems in the mouth and gut are linked to m... by andrewzah on Saturday February 13, 2021 @11:50PM (#26129784)
The initial tests looked for fungal infections, and I took anti-fungal pills for about a month as well. After the biopsy at the dermatologist, they told me it was atopic dermatitis / eczema.
Re:Microbial ecosystems in the mouth and gut are linked to m... by nerdponx on Friday February 12, 2021 @08:09PM (#26120527)
On the flip side of what I posted, if it doesn't help then go enjoy your damn food. But good luck figuring it out all the same.
Re:Microbial ecosystems in the mouth and gut are linked to m... by spdionis on Saturday February 13, 2021 @08:02AM (#26123371)
I've had similar problems and I've concluded the main driver was stress after all.
Re:Microbial ecosystems in the mouth and gut are linked to m... by andrewzah on Sunday February 14, 2021 @12:16AM (#26129890)
It definitely doesn't help! I've decided to eliminate coffee completely as even if it doesn't trigger itching symptoms, it absolutely makes me more stressed. I like non-caffeinated tea more anyway, but it's hard to turn down family members making lattes...
Re:Microbial ecosystems in the mouth and gut are linked to m... by tudorw on Saturday February 13, 2021 @03:54AM (#26122353)
Sulphites are worth cutting out to test too.
Re:Microbial ecosystems in the mouth and gut are linked to m... by clumsysmurf on Saturday February 13, 2021 @03:42AM (#26122304)
I'm going through something similar, but I haven't visited a doctor ... yet. But its getting out of control. I was reading that itching from eczema drives people to suicide, just like dry eyes ... things one would only assume as minor discomforts, until you realize you can't sleep any more, causing a downward spiral.

Just recently, I found this in medicalXpress https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-01-acute-eczema-patients...

Which you may want to check out because of IgE. It goes into how typical antihistamines don't work because the itch signal is from a different pathway, etc.

Also this week I found out about this book https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/588965/clean-by-jam...

from this article

https://melmagazine.com/en-us/story/what-happens-if-you-stop...

"James Hamblin, physician, staff writer for The Atlantic and author of Clean: The New Science of Skin; and Jack Gilbert, a renowned microbial ecology professor at the University of California, San Diego and co-author of Dirt Is Good: The Advantage of Germs for Your Child’s Developing Immune System."

One of them recommends using soap only for "pits and bits" :) But as runners both, thats hard to do when covered in sweat and salt.

Re:Microbial ecosystems in the mouth and gut are linked to m... by andrewzah on Saturday February 13, 2021 @11:46PM (#26129768)
"One of them recommends using soap only for "pits and bits" :) But as runners both, that's hard to do when covered in sweat and salt."

I switched to natural soap bars a while ago, as I like those anyways more than typical body washes one gets from e.g. cvs or walmart. For hair, shampoo every time is simply not necessary. I use that 1x a week, but some people don't use it at all- check out nopoo. I don't have issues with my scalp but my dermatologist did mention that Head and Shoulders can make eczema issues worse because it's abrasive.

I will check that book out.

"But its getting out of control. I was reading that itching from eczema drives people to suicide, just like dry eyes"

While I don't have those thoughts, I completely understand it. I'm not sure if people who've never had this kinda of eczema before can understand it. But the constant itching (which is both physical and mental) and the mess afterwards from scratching is brutal after a while. Scratching at 3am (after sitting in bed and trying to concentrate on anything other than the immense signal to scratch) brings a brief bout of euphoric relief, then regret and depending on the size of the scab, blood/sticky fluid. I basically had to wash my sheets and blanket daily because there would be residue all over.

For a while, the backs of my thumbs both kept on weeping. So imagine sticky fluid getting on your keyboard, guitar, etc and constantly having to wipe it. The same happened to the entire back of my right hand as it had gotten a bit infected, so I had to go to the ER and get a corticosteroid (dexamethasone) shot to calm the situation enough that it could get back to "normal"- scabs and immense itching urges.

"Which you may want to check out because of IgE. It goes into how typical antihistamines don't work because the itch signal is from a different pathway, etc."

This is something that I have been noticing too. I took benydryl occasionally and it seemed to have no real effect other than maybe placebo. Same with hydroxyzine- I've taken at max 100mg (4 25mg tablets) about 30 mins before bed, and the only thing it did was make me real sluggish the next morning / sleep through alarms.

Re:Microbial ecosystems in the mouth and gut are linked to m... by JackMorgan on Saturday February 13, 2021 @06:01AM (#26122866)
I'm a daily runner/rucker who gets completely covered in sweat and grime every day, I've had success only wiping myself off with my hands in the shower followed by washing my hands. Unless I've specifically gotten muddy or poopy, I don't think there's much benefit to soaping up the whole body all the time.

I also stopped using shampoo years ago, and a daily rinse keeps it fairly clean. When I can't shower for several days, like hiking, I do use soap everywhere, because I'm dirty enough that a rinse isn't sufficient.

Re:Microbial ecosystems in the mouth and gut are linked to m... by ArkanExplorer on Friday February 12, 2021 @08:32PM (#26120644)
Try cold showering - hot showers strip the natural oils from your skin and leave it dry.

Ensure you're changing your bedsheets every 5 days, and wash them with 70degree+ water.

Re:Microbial ecosystems in the mouth and gut are linked to m... by andrewzah on Saturday February 13, 2021 @11:58PM (#26129819)
All of my showers since last ~April have been coldish/lukewarm. Bedsheets, blankets and pillowcases get changed/washed almost daily. In addition to switching to gentle detergents.
Re:Microbial ecosystems in the mouth and gut are linked to m... by rusabd on Friday February 12, 2021 @05:25PM (#26119240)
Are you losing weight? I had some rash appeared spontaneously after start losing weight and it took almost a year to clear out
Re:Microbial ecosystems in the mouth and gut are linked to m... by andrewzah on Friday February 12, 2021 @06:10PM (#26119648)
Yes, actually. In that period I was doing intermittent fasting in addition to running 5k daily. I started at ~210/215 lbs and dropped down to around ~190 or so. Once I started taking meds and winter hit I stopped running so I'm back to around 210.
Re:Microbial ecosystems in the mouth and gut are linked to m... by rusabd on Friday February 12, 2021 @06:57PM (#26120065)
My only theory is bro science tier idea that fat accumulate some toxins and then it released during weight loss.
Re:Microbial ecosystems in the mouth and gut are linked to m... by joshspankit on Friday February 12, 2021 @07:32PM (#26120323)
Anecdotal evidence says this is a valid theory. I personally caused a shingles infection when I was breaking up intramuscular tissues with a lacrosse ball. As well, most massage therapists will have stories about “toxins coming to the surface” for clients after being worked on (especially in first-time clients) (Source: I’ve talked to about a dozen massage therapists about this).
Re:Microbial ecosystems in the mouth and gut are linked to m... by bmm6o on Friday February 12, 2021 @09:22PM (#26120862)
They may say that, but it's unsupported by science. The red flag is that nobody says anything more specific than "toxin".
Re:Microbial ecosystems in the mouth and gut are linked to m... by joshspankit on Saturday February 13, 2021 @01:02PM (#26125273)
Personally I feel that “toxin” is appropriate language in the massage industry: the actual individual effects can be widely varied, clients understand it, and it prepares them for potential symptoms without planting any negative biases that would affect their actual experience through placebo effect.
Re:Microbial ecosystems in the mouth and gut are linked to m... by tnayrb on Friday February 12, 2021 @03:33PM (#26118230)
I'm no expert, but something similar happened to me a few years back. The conclusion was an allergic reaction to the sun...
Re:Microbial ecosystems in the mouth and gut are linked to m... by andrewzah on Friday February 12, 2021 @04:36PM (#26118839)
Did it go away on its own?
Re:Microbial ecosystems in the mouth and gut are linked to m... by aedocw on Friday February 12, 2021 @05:26PM (#26119244)
I can't confirm today because it's very overcast, but as of a few days ago the sun had still not gone away.
Re:Microbial ecosystems in the mouth and gut are linked to m... by andrewzah on Friday February 12, 2021 @06:13PM (#26119676)
I know you're joking, but this is a horrible condition. While researching I've seen some anecdotal stories about the condition just... clearing up after a while for some people, so hence my question.
Re:Microbial ecosystems in the mouth and gut are linked to m... by joshspankit on Friday February 12, 2021 @07:29PM (#26120297)
I’m suspicious that your reply may also have a joke embedded in it...
Re:Microbial ecosystems in the mouth and gut are linked to m... by joshspankit on Saturday February 13, 2021 @12:57PM (#26125222)
Addendum: the downvote is totally fair
Re:Microbial ecosystems in the mouth and gut are linked to m... by airstrike on Friday February 12, 2021 @03:43PM (#26118333)
For what it's worth (very little, since it's a medical anecdote shared online), my wife had a nasty case of hives for the first time in her life after trying a sarecycline treatment. Took us quite a while to connect the dots, though, and to this day we don't know if it was really what caused it (or stress, or the fact that she took 3 different vaccines on the same day, or everything combined)

All of that is to suggest that you think about what you have changed about your diet, medication or anything else either in May or shortly before that

Re:Microbial ecosystems in the mouth and gut are linked to m... by andrewzah on Friday February 12, 2021 @04:10PM (#26118575)
> what you have changed about your diet, medication or anything else either in May or shortly before that

Well, there are only 2 things I can think of. Firstly, due to covid I had been working at home from March to May. Before covid I would still go out a lot to cafes/social workspaces and get sunlight. And around mid-march I started running. By May I was running about 5k-7k daily throughout my neighborhood.

So we initially thought it was a bug related thing, but everything came back clean. We tried eliminating food, but nothing really seemed to have an effect after a week or two.

I spoke to my immunologist and he believes it's not food related as I already have food related allergies (peanuts), so eating something else should give me quick reactions like peanuts do. Also, he said it's rare for adults to spontaneously develop something like that. Bloodwork has been inconclusive because my IgE is so high that it's causing false positives. I did a diff of my allergy bloodwork from and back in October, and multiple values did increase.

I have tried basically everything- getting more sunlight, using sensitive detergent (3 different brands), cutting out coffee/gluten etc. Hell, we even replaced the carpet in my parents house with hardwood, and once I moved into my house we cut out the carpet as well.

Re:Microbial ecosystems in the mouth and gut are linked to m... by michael1999 on Friday February 12, 2021 @05:29PM (#26119284)
Tick borne disease?
Re:Microbial ecosystems in the mouth and gut are linked to m... by andrewzah on Friday February 12, 2021 @06:04PM (#26119595)
It was ruled out early on, along with fungal infections, HIV, etc in an array of tests. Basically every test I've had has come out clean, minus occasionally a little high blood pressure. And the IgE levels in orbit as mentioned above.
Re:Microbial ecosystems in the mouth and gut are linked to m... by beef234 on Friday February 12, 2021 @09:27PM (#26120877)
Could it be mcas?
Re:Microbial ecosystems in the mouth and gut are linked to m... by andrewzah on Sunday February 14, 2021 @12:14AM (#26129876)
I had a look at the symptoms and I don't think it matches what I have. I believe my urine and stool test would have ruled out high mediators, although I can ask my GP next time if they were checking for that or not.

Ultimately I think my solution will be to go to a tertiary/quaternary center like Duke.

Re:Microbial ecosystems in the mouth and gut are linked to m... by rriepe on Friday February 12, 2021 @04:17PM (#26118640)
Check out Dr. John Sarno's works. It's mostly about back pain but he covers other manifestations of the condition he calls TMS. He talks about a personality type which you seem to fit.